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To: stfassisi; Missey_Lucy_Goosey
Find consistent historical Christian writings to back how you interpret scripture?

Most of the early Church fathers came out of pagan cultures. While they give insight into great theological truths their writings are not and never were considered "inspired" by the Church. Consequently, the Church, on record admit they are prone to errors.

Just because the early church might have held a certain view does not necessarily mean it was the correct view. What you would have to show is where praying to the dead is clearly defined in the council of the early church-not in various writings.

10,129 posted on 10/30/2007 5:14:44 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Most of the early Church fathers came out of pagan cultures

SO ,do you believe that the Holy Spirit did NOT change them?

If you think this,then Christianity is a sham,a lie...and the Bible is a joke because the Early Christians are the witnesses of Scripture

10,132 posted on 10/30/2007 5:26:43 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD
What you would have to show is where praying to the dead is clearly defined in the council of the early church-not in various writings.

In his treatise on prayer, Origen specifically states that prayer is to be offered to God and God only.

Origen on Prayer

CHAPTER X

That prayer to the Son and not the Father is most out of place and only to be suggested in defiance of manifest truth, one and all will admit. In prayer to both it is plain that we should have to offer our claims in plural form, and in our prayers say, “Grant you both, Bless you both, Supply you both, Save you both,.” or the like, which is self-evidently wrong and also incapable of being shown by anyone to stand in the scriptures as spoken by any.

It remains, accordingly, to pray to God alone, the Father of All, not however apart from the High Priest who has been appointed by the Father with swearing of an oath, according to the words He hath sworn and shall not repent, “You art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.” In thanksgiving to God, therefore, during their prayers, saints acknowledge His favors through Christ Jesus.

Just as the man who is scrupulous about prayer ought not to pray to one who himself prays but to the Father upon whom our Lord Jesus has taught us to call in our prayers, so we are not to offer any prayer to the Father apart from Him. He clearly sets this forth himself when He says, “Verily, verily, I tell you, whatsoever you may ask of my Father He shall give you in my house. Until but now you have not asked aught in my name. Ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be fulfilled.”

10,137 posted on 10/30/2007 5:59:47 PM PDT by Missey_Lucy_Goosey
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To: HarleyD; stfassisi; Missey_Lucy_Goosey
"While they give insight into great theological truths their writings are not and never were considered "inspired" by the Church.

HD, where did you get that idea? The Church proclaims the inspiration of the Fathers throughout the liturgical year in Apolytikia and Kontakia. For example, this Kontakion from the feast of +Cyril of Jerusalem:

"With your lips, O wise Cyril,
And through divine inspiration
You enlightened your people
To the worship of the one Trinity,
Undivided in essence, yet divided in Hypostases.
Wherefore rejoicing, we celebrate your all-holy memory,
Offering you as our intercessor before God.

10,146 posted on 10/30/2007 7:11:00 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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