I guess I feel if I'm doing it right, I SHOULD be predictable. :)
FK: "One example [of sin corrupting creation] would be the physical deterioration of our bodies. I don't think that would have happened, but for sin."
That may well be true. Mightn't it not also be true that physical death, while a "natural" result of sin, is allowed to occur as a benefice from God so that we need not exist in sin for an eternity in the flesh?
In all honesty I've never thought about that. But I wouldn't think it was also true. Were I a reprobate existing in sin and I had the option of spending eternity sinning in the flesh versus rotting in the flaming pit of hell, I believe I would choose the former. :)
However, if you refer to the Godly living in a sinful world, even our own remnant of sin, then I fully agree with seeing physical death as a benefit to those who are saved. We will be better off. This is one reason why I think that God directly causes physical death. For the saved, if we cause the time of our death, then it is always bad because it violates the Law. But if God chooses the time, then it is always a blessing.
In other words, is death an example of God's love? Certainly it was before the Incarnation. What about since?
I certainly think it CAN be, especially in a case where God ends a life in order to prevent an elect from sinning his way out of his salvation. I do note that +Basil seems to acknowledge that God does cause the deaths of individuals.
Really? Might it not be better to say that these "evils" [natural disasters] are imposed on us by the Evil One but allowed by God as "pedagogical punishments"? In this sense, sin distorts all of creation which was created perfect.
Even of the first level, I don't think "natural disasters" are always evil at all. Sometimes they redirect rivers and more people have water, etc. Plus, the Bible is so very clear that they are the work of God. How could this be considered an evil from satan:
Matt 27:51-52 : 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
There is also the example of the parting of the Red Sea. I doubt that it was satan who worked so hard to save God's people while wiping out Pharaoh's army, who served him. :)
[+Basil:] Therefore, He does not slay one, and give life to another, but through the means which He slays, He gives life to a man, and He heals a man with that which He smites him, according to the proverb which says, 'For thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from death' (Prov. 23:14).
Is he saying that all the unrighteous who were put to death were somehow saved? Are the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah now in Heaven? If so, then what would +Basil's answer be to this:
Jude 7 : In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
They are serving the punishment of eternal fire.
The Desert Fathers have left us countless stories of holy monastics around whom, by virtue of their advanced theosis, nature returned to a perfect and peaceful state, where the lion lays down with the lamb so to speak. many of these stories are told to Orthodox children to this very day.
Thanks for the quote from +Ryle. In these stories, is the hero the one who achieved advanced theosis? That is to say, what role does God play in these stories? I ask because it seems like it is the monastic who is able to alter nature through his decision to achieve advanced theosis. But regardless of the answer, off of the top of my head I can't think of any similar stories that I have ever heard. Sounds interesting though.
“In these stories, is the hero the one who achieved advanced theosis? That is to say, what role does God play in these stories? I ask because it seems like it is the monastic who is able to alter nature through his decision to achieve advanced theosis”
It is the very existence of these monastics which is able to restore creation around them to its true created nature, FK. The Fathers tell us why. It is because by attaining a state of theosis, we become like God. But none of that happens without God’s grace, FK. That’s God’s “role” in the stories.
“’Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?’ (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god.” +Symeon the New Theologian
and
“The Son of God has become Son of Man in order to make us...sons of God, raising our race by grace to what He is Himself by nature, granting us birth from above through the grace of the Holy Spirit and leading us straightway to the kingdom of heaven, or rather, granting us this kingdom within us (Luke 17:21), in order that we should not merely be fed by the hope of entering it, but entering into full possession thereof should cry: our ‘life is hid with Christ in God.’ (Col. 3:3).” +Symeon the New Theologian
and
“Moses and David, and whoever else became vessels of divine energy by laying aside the properties of their fallen nature, were inspired by the power of God... They became living ions of Christ, being the same as He is, by grace rather than by assimilation....” +Gregory Palamas
(you knew I had to get those two into this discussion!)
As “gods”, as “Sons of God” as “Icons of Christ”, all through God’s grace rather than assimilation into His Essence, the Christian who has attained theosis does indeed restore creation. That’s one of the purposes of the Incarnation, FK.