Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Mormons are Christians? It's not just enough to gave the labels it 's the Divine Economy of the Godhead that is essential to orthodox christian belief. Spoutomng names without proper relationship is like saying Peter Jack and Harry.
PS Education is a good thing. It is effected by reading.
What fruits? Empty words you use. But, what is your authority for even asking the question “by whose authority?”
Same as yours. But you are also judging my love for A-G. And I love A-G. I hate to see her deceived. I love you too, xzins. And I also hate to see you deceived.
Working from a script?
!
Didn't JESUS die for your sins? If so why do you have to make additional sacrifices?
This ritual is so similar to Jewish practices from the OT in that you are constantly making sacrifices to atone for sins. You have changed the blood from being spilled at the base of the altar to drinking it, but everything else seems to be the same. JESUS brought a NEW COVENANT which did away with the need for never ending sacrifices.
Excuse me? What seems to confsue you?
The “Twelve” were the apostles chosen by God, who were witness to of Christ’s resurrection. No where does it say that Matthias (and Joseph called Marsabbas) were apostles or numbered among the “Twelve”. They are among the 120 plus disciples that waited for the promised Holy Spirit, but there is no indication that they were any different than the other disciples.
The authority that the apostles had was the authority of the word of God and the power to speak it boldly by the Holy Spirit for the edification of the saints. The Holy Spirit authenticated that word with signs and wonders. We are all commanded to forgive those who sin against us (Matt. 18:21-22,35) and if we do not then we will not be forgiven. That is no different than what Jesus reiterated to the 10 disciples in John 20.
The church at Antioch in Acts 13:1-3, had the authority to ordain and they were not apostles. The Matt. 18:18 passage was spoken of the church, not the apostles and it was practiced by the church in 1 Cor.5.
There is no scripture that gives the warrant for “apostolic succession”.
I believe your question was about the “laying on of hands”; not serving communion.
So, you can do whatever you want, sin all you want, all your sins are taken care off until you die? How deceptively attractive that satanic theology is! Comfy. Easy. Man-made to man's personal satisfaction.
was it not Luther who said that he could commit 300 adulteries a day and still be forgiven? A man could not have made a more man-like theology, one that glorifies himself in the name of God.
Yes, of course, Christ died for our sins, so that we can live the rest of our lives in repentance and avoidance of evil. he made our salvation possible. But the devil would want you to believe that it's a done deal: you are saved, he says. Be happy, don't worry. The Church never knew that theology.
The devil wants people to be their own popes, to trust their own "indwelling Spirit" as the alpha and omega of truth, to make up their own personal religions (33,000 and counting P-Marlowe), to make you believe the path is as wide as it can be, not narrow as Christ says.
In other words, the devil wants us to believe a cozy, feel-good lie.
The same principle: no magic. The laying of the hands involves petitioning the Holy Spirit to affect the change, just as in all other sacraments (ordination is a sacrament).
Protestants seem to have no problem with laying of the hands but seem to have problems with other sacraments, which they call derogative "empty rituals."
The power to bind and loosen on earth shall be bound and loosened in Heaven. The apostles ordained others, and by that sacrament effected their succession.
“So, you can do whatever you want, sin all you want, all your sins are taken care off until you die?” When someone —like you— resorts to pleading the extreme, it’s a sure sign they are lost in the discussion at hand and do not have a discerning spirit, more likely an accusatory one. A discerning spirit does not need to resort to foolery in order to negotiate faith matters.
Are you sure the medication is working?
Ni
MHGinTN: When someone —like you— resorts to pleading the extreme, it’s a sure sign they are lost in the discussion at hand and do not have a discerning spirit, more likely an accusatory one
Excuse me, are you saying Luther didn't say that in more than one way? Do you not know his famous pecca fortiter as well as the 300 adulteries a day? Is it not the Protestant belief that no matter what you do Christ paid for you sin and as long as you accept Him it makes no difference what you do until the end of your life: you are saved? How cozy. How deceptive?
No sir, it is indeed lack of a discerning spirit that would lead one to believe such a foolishness. For only the devil would want you to believe that committing adulteries and sinning boldly is okay so long as you call on Christ's name.
But I suppose coming from your own "authority" to judge as to what is discerning and what accusatory, I suppose I should do what A-G says she never does: eschew the doctrine and opinions of men and women—like you?
“The apostles ordained others, and by that sacrament effected their succession”
But the Antioch church ordained others also so they had the power to “bind and loose” and they weren’t apostles. In fact, Paul was an apostle and so was Barnabas when they were ordained by the church at Antioch. Perhaps the first “laying on of hands” didn’t work.
Me neither.
One more proof that Holy Orders are not restricted to Apostles, but to ordained servants of God, the priests. However, the first ordinations had to come from the Apostles. So, all those who were ordained trace their Holy Orders to the Apostles.
And you do it again!... “For only the devil would want you to believe that committing adulteries and sinning boldly is okay so long as you call on Christ’s name.” Here’s a clue: not a single respondent on this thread is advocating such an extreme, nor is anyone claiming that sin abound so that Grace abound more ... well, except you in this imaginary relationship to God’s Spirit. It is the behaviors of men like Joseph Smith which show of what spirit they are conceived. Try not to make so big a disaster of your discussion with these foolishnesses.
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