Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
I believe you will find that our friend Kosta does not believe that God kills people physically.
God may kill people AND condemn them to hell,
I think it is a pretty safe bet that he has done both.
Whatever the good kosta believes is his own.
It does not, however, address the differences from God physically killing someone and in condemning them to hell.
Did God send everyone that he has ever allowed to be killed by any of His contrivances (kings, plagues, floods, etc.) to hell? There is no Biblical inferrence that this is the case.
Supposing God decides that the next crop of bin Laden recruits needs to dive bomb our metropolitan area for His reasons and I happen to perish. Does that mean that I am condemned to hell along with the rest of the downtown? Following this logic, does this mean that everyone who perished in the various 9/11 attacks were condemned by God to the everlasting fires of hell?
Somehow I don't think that what I am writing and what you are reading are the same things.
Have a nice day.
Somone who pesters people incessently?
In the Bible.
It can’t be the scriptures since they are filled with all sorts of additions of men
There is a chance that any verse was added at some time other than by the original author. We have no way of knowing. That is just a reminder that what we believe is not necessarily true. But some people can live in delusions and be perfectly at home.
You have no proof that any verse in the Bible was written by any author claimed, just as you cannot prove that the Holy Spirit does anything just because you believe He does.
Now, if we are going to pretend that a verse is really a true verse (and there is a certain probability attached to that pretense) then we can speak of it as if it were true (and there is a certain probability that it is).
When we do, we see that the verses in question express a universal, but not particular truth, sufficiently general to allow all sorts of interpretations as to what is good or evil. In other words it can mean anything your heart desires.
So, while it expresses the universal truth, in general rather than particular, it by no means assures us that what we know or what we define as "good" is really good. The verse is true provided what we consider good is truly good.
Last time I checked, men have been mistaken.
So you don’t know... What is a demon is?...
P-M; you are the one in this conversation that keeps appearing to equate God physically killing a person or allowing that person to perish with sending them to hell forever.
Your friend Kosta doesn't believe Love kills. God is not the author of death. Death is the consequence of sin, and God is not the author of sin, some sects' bizarre beliefs notwithstanding. God is Life. The opposite of God is death. Life begets life. Death begets death.
In the words of Prof. Alexander Kalomiros ("River of Fire") Death was not inflicted upon us by God.l3 We fell into it by our revolt. God is Life and Life is God. We revolted against God, we closed our gates to His life-giving grace.l4 "For as much as he departed from life," wrote Saint Basil, "by so much did he draw nearer to death. For God is Life, deprivation of life is death."l5 "God did not create death," continues Saint Basil, "but we brought it upon ourselves." "Not at all, however, did He hinder the dissolution… so that He would not make the infirmity immortal in us."l6 As Saint Irenaeus puts it: "Separation from God is death, separation from light is darkness… and it is not the light which brings upon them the punishment of blindness."l7 "Death," says Saint Maximus the Confessor, "is principally the separation from God, from which followed necessarily the death of the body. Life is principally He who said, ‘I am the Life.’"18
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l3 "For God made not death, neither hath He pleasure in the destruction of the living, for he created all things that they might have their being, and the generations of the world were healthful, and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of Hades upon the earth." Wisdom of Solomon 1:13-14. "For God created man to be immortal and made him to be in an image of his own eternity. Nevertheless, through envy of the devil came death into the world." Wisdom of Solomon 2:23-24.
14 "And so he who was made in the likeness of God, since the more powerful spirit [the Holy Spirit] is separated from him, becomes mortal." Tatian Address to the Greeks 7.
15 "For as much as he departed from life, just so much did he draw nearer to death. For God is life; deprivation of life is death. So Adam was the author of death to himself through his departure from God, in accordance with the scripture which says ‘For behold, they that remove themselves from Thee shall perish.’" Psalm 72:27.
16 "Thus God did not create death, but we brought it upon ourselves out of an evil disposition. Nevertheless, He did not hinder the dissolution on account of the aforementioned causes, so that He would not make the infirmity immortal in us." St. Basil the Great (PG 31. 345).
17 "But as many as depart from God by their own choice, He inflicts that separation from Himself which they have chosen of their own accord. But separation from God is death, and separation from light is darkness.... It is not, however, that the light has inflicted upon them the penalty of darkness." St. Irenaeus Against Heresies 5. 27:2. "But others shun the light and separate themselves from God...." Ibid., 5. 28:1.
18 Philokalia, vol. 2, p. 27 (Greek edition), St. Maximus the Confessor.
I already gave you the answer. Which part don’t you understand?
Show me once where I did that. Kosta said that God never kills anyone. I provided some examples of where God did that. I did not say that any or all of those people who were killed by God were sent to hell. They were killed by God. We are not spared death simply because we are nice people, nor are was spared death because we have been saved.
God appoints the day and the hour of our death.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27 KJV)
So Mark, what do you think you can read into this post that isn't there?
You responded: Sounds like a mighty petulant spirit. That doesn't sound like a comforter, but a high-school cheerleader. Somewhat flighty, and almost girlish.
Would you prefer that "love" is forced upon you??? God desires a loving relationship with us. What sort of "groom" do you take God to be? Sounds like your idea is the "shotgun" wedding.
And smiles will be issued to all present!
Sorry, our ideas of God are quite different.
You wrote: So we decide when the Spirit of God is active in us? Where's the Scripture for that?
We don't decide without God's graces when He will be active. However, any time it says that God is our helper, or that we can grieve the Holy Spirit, or that God is passionate for man, or God is Love are good indications that there is some sort of relationship between God and man. A cooperative one. I'm sure there are other instances where God's effect in us is noted because of man's response. However, it is clear to me that man CAN obey God's commandments as a result of man's response to God's graces.
If God has determined that we are among His children, then I would assume the Spirit works even harder in us when we are weak and faced with temptations. That's what He promised.
Of course God would "work harder". But it doesn't follow that man becomes a puppet once he declares himself as a child of God. The fact that men HAVE left God's family is indication that God allows us the final choice. You would have God responsible for man falling away, otherwise.
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." -- 1 Corinthians 10:13
What does the verse before that one say???
Regards
Your mother in law is a demon?... pullllese...
Do you patronize her too?...
What is a demon?...
***Why are you reaching into the OT when the NT is full of instances that tell us that God “gives life to the dead”***
Because the old testament is part of the Bible, also.
*** It was man who ushered death into the world, not God.***
It was God who planted the tree, it was God who told Adam not to eat of it, It was God who decided the punishment for disobedience, It was God who determined that man should die. It was all God. It was man who disobeyed, but God set the ground work. If Adam had not been told about the tree, if God had not planted the tree, then there would have been no punishment, and no need for a savior. But God had a plan, from the beginning.
You're a Catholic, so you're supposed to believe in original sin, right? If so, is original sin enough to condemn by itself? If it is, then no child is "innocent" in the context of this discussion. If it is not, then your baptism ritual is a waste of time.
I'm not sure how the millstone reference applies here. Those verses condemn one who cause a child believer to sin. How does that fit in here?
And as for the TULIP, the only thing I can think of is your disputing total depravity. As I said, is original sin enough to condemn or not?
To: xzins; kosta50; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe
You left out the flood. But then kosta doesn’t believe there was a flood.
You left out Sodom and Gomorrah. But then I trust that kosta doesn’t believe in Sodom and Gomorrah.
You left out the murmering Israelites that God killed off. But then I trust that kosta doesn’t believe in the Exodus.
Frankly I would have to assume that wherever the Bible speaks of God killing men that kosta assumes that the Bible is in error and that his own pre-conceived theology (which includes his belief that God doesn’t kill) is more reliable than scripture.
I guess you can’t argue with that kind of reasoning.
5,436 posted on 09/05/2007 8:14:38 AM CDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
which preceded:
To: kosta50; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe
God does kill.
Remember the rich man who wanted to build bigger and better barns? God said, “This night is thy soul required of thee.”
Remember Jesus’ friend, Lazarus, whom Jesus refused to heal so that Lazarus could die and then be resurrected so as to display God’s purposes?
Remember Herod who gave a speech but did not honor God, so he was consumed with worms and died?
Remember Ananias & Sophira who lied to the Holy Spirit and were directly killed by God and fear came over the church?
Remember the Corinthians whom Paul says received communion in an unworthy manner and many became sick and died?
Need we speak of the martyrs, who cry to the Lord, but are told to rest until the full number of their brethren slain for the gospel are killed?
Since God has absolutely perfect foreknowledge, and since God is the originating cause of earth, the act of creation of the earth does mean that God created despite knowing that death and tragedy would be one of the by-products.
5,434 posted on 09/05/2007 6:20:01 AM CDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
and so on.
As I read back into the posts, I made the assumption that you supported the idea that God’s physical killing equated God’s spiritual condemnation to hell. If I am incorrect, please accept my apologies.
I sure can't think of anything, and AMEN, Dr. E. Thanks for the wonderful scripture.
The unfortunate thing about depending on internal feelings is that there is no external metric to ensure that the internal feeling is actually sound.
If the reliance is on the “indwelling Spirit” and the “indwelling Spirit” tells one to rob a liquor store, then what is the objective difference between a religious mystic and a common armed robber?
Umm, the baptism of water and the Holy Spirit is supposed to be the way that we address original sin.
No. God’s taking life doesn’t mean the persons are condemned to hell.
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