Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
The same is true of my church.
That happens a lot around here. :)
That happens a lot around here too. :)
God(father, son, holy spirit) is/are Spirits.. so are "we" and angels too(spirits)..
YES I am saying that.. What a spirt/Spirit really is, is to be determined..
Ghost is just an archaic english word for "spirit".. (whatever that is)..
However I just expanded on the "pearl" theme.. as Jesus did.. i.e. Lusting after a women is the same as raping her, hateing your brother is the same as KILLING him.. like that..
No doubt about it.. never was a human born on this planet that could take away the sin of the world.. Jesus is a pearl of great price.. and a special "pearl".. Thats not to say there not other "pearls".. Missing the metaphor here is missing "the Spirit".. I would think..
FK: As I noted earlier, this is false under the Apostolic view. That is because you retain the free will (and power) to snatch yourselves out of God's hands at any time and AGAINST HIS WILL.
No, FK, that is the Apostolic view! :)
We do not retain "control" to snatch ourselves from God's hands; God allows it and our [fallen] nature wants it. God made a promise that, as long as we come to Him, in spite of our nature, He will not let go of us. God helps us overcome our sinful nature, but he doesn't change it. That does't mean we can't deny God at any moment and be lost.
In the Reformed view, there is no faith, there is no will, but possession. Man is possessed either by God or by the devil; faith and submission are meaningless and empty accidentals of human perspective only. So, this is not about us, but about who gets the "trophy!" That makes a mockery of Christ's sacrifice in my opinion.
There is no total surrender in faith here, you must retain control of your destinies.
There is no surrender in the Reformed view, either. You are either pre-programmed to be in God's hands or in the devil's. This was done before the foundations of the world, so it makes no difference what you do, think, believe, or act. We are just little bingo chips that God puts in his box and the devil tries to snatch them from Him. That is—until God gets mad and kicks the devil and all the stolen chips out the window!
I would call such theology silly, but that would give it too much dignity.
NO YOU don't have any way of authentication.. But those of "us" that follow the Holy Spirit's leading "DO".. The Holy Spirit can and does lead us into all truth.. At least as much of it as we can absorb(or are open to).. Those hamstrung "by dogma" have a real problem seeing truth, as did the pharisees.. and others..
CAUTION: Religion can and DOES hijack the Holy Spirit's ministry and other "help and comfort", by dogmatic concepts of sometimes heretical and pagan influences. As pupae of the Lord of the Flys(Beelzebub).. Example; purgatory..
It's a valid question. But the point is that it was not forgotten. It was preserved in the practice of the primitive Church onward, the liturgy and the writings of the earliest of gathers.
I agree that the most logical formula would be three immersions, and this is entirely valid from both a logical and symbolic level... but is salvation a matter of formulae and ritual?
The immersion (based on the choice of the word, namely baptiso) is multiple. Whether two immersions, or four, five or six is meaningful is a matter of debate. I think they would not even be symbolic.
Laying of the hands and baptizing, are all rituals. Christ performed a ritual when he broke the bread. Washing of the feet was a ritual. Worship is a ritual. I don't remember God outlawing rituals.
So, if we are going to have rituals, they must be meaningful and in concern with what they represent. In most Protestant assemblies, there is an open bible to signify access to heaven. That in itself is a ritual. The access to heaven is available with or without an open bible.
The Lord tells us not to pray in public. yet do we not practice public prayers on various occasions?
One cannot argue about triple immersions and offer nothing else as a valid substitute. The early church practiced triple immersion. Didache practiced it during the time of the living Apostles who walked with the Lord.
You forget, the metaphor came from Jesus' own mouth..
It is HIS way of makeing "a Point".. not others ABOUT him..
What do have?.. money?, property?, concepts?, truths?, facts?, well SELL THEM..
SELL THEM to purchase the pearl of great price..
Is your Church Catholic or Orthodox? If not, that you can't make that claim.
Nonetheless, it doesn't excuse the fact that what i said was grossly mischaracterized.
Oh, just stop being silly.
For the record, my comments were not the result of anything you said.
All knowing. No surprise.
Foreknowing what the results would be, God created man, including Adolf and Teresa and you and I, with free will.
That means that at birth there’s no way to change the results.
God thinks of shaping pot A and says to Himself based on His knowledge, “This one is going to end up in the trash.” Then He makes it, and it ends up in the trash.
God thinks of shaping pot B and says to Himself based on His knowledge, “This one is going to end up on the shelf.” Then He makes it, and it ends up on the shelf.
God PLANS the shape of pot A and says to Himself, “This one is going to end up in the trash.” Then He makes it, and it ends up in the trash.
God PLANS the shape of pot B and says to Himself, “This one is going to end up on the shelf.” Then He makes it, and it ends up on the shelf.
No difference between foreknowing and planning in terms of end results.....which God knows ahead of time.
That was it. Thank you.....Ping
Authenication of the bible or any other text, or speech, or dialog, or relationship can be sealed/vetted by the Holy Spirit(paraclete).. The dogma of religion any religion can and I feel, probably is, hijacking real time Holy Spirit ministry..
Jesus left the Holy Spirit to minister in just this way.. as a/the paraclete/comfort'er.. "one that comes alongside to help"..
SILLY? is allowing some organization to make your decisions FOR YOU.. for YOU are personally guilty of any mistakes they make.. Jesus is the gate to the sheep pen(John ch10) even IF some sheep want to stay in the pen(organization)..
Nope. That means that if the results change, they're foreknown.
God doesn't make trash. Especially trash in His image.
Are you suggesting that God has imperfect knowledge? If He sees A happening, but B results, then God was wrong about A, wasn't He?
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