Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Wednesday, 11 July 2007
Yesterday's Reuters headline: "The Vatican on Tuesday said Christian denominations outside the Roman Catholic Church were not full churches of Jesus Christ." The actual proclamation, posted on the official Vatican Web site, says that Protestant Churches are really "ecclesial communities" rather than Churches, because they lack apostolic succession, and therefore they "have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery." Furthermore, not even the Eastern Orthodox Churches are real Churches, even though they were explicitly referred to as such in the Vatican document Unitatis Redintegratio (Decree on Ecumenism). The new document explains that they were only called Churches because "the Council wanted to adopt the traditional use of the term." This new clarification, issued officially by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, but in fact strongly supported by Pope Benedict XVI, manages to insult both Protestants and the Orthodox, and it may set ecumenism back a hundred years.
The new document, officially entitled "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church," claims that the positions it takes do not reverse the intent of various Vatican II documents, especially Unitatis Redintegratio, but merely clarify them. In support of this contention, it cites other documents, all issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: Mysterium Ecclesiae (1973), Communionis notio (1992), and Dominus Iesus (2000). The last two of these documents were issued while the current pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, was prefect of the Congregation. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was born in 1542 with the name Sacred Congregation of the Universal Inquisition, and for centuries it has operated as an extremely conservative force with the Roman Catholic Church, opposing innovation and modernizing tendencies, suppressing dissent, and sometimes, in its first few centuries, persecuting those who believed differently. More recently, the congregation has engaged in the suppression of some of Catholicism's most innovative and committed thinkers, such as Yves Congar, Hans Küng, Charles Curran, Matthew Fox, and Jon Sobrino and other liberation theologians. In light of the history of the Congregation of the Faith, such conservative statements as those released this week are hardly surprising, though they are quite unwelcome.
It is natural for members of various Christian Churches to believe that the institutions to which they belong are the best representatives of Christ's body on earth--otherwise, why wouldn't they join a different Church? It is disingenuous, however, for the leader of a Church that has committed itself "irrevocably" (to use Pope John Paul II's word in Ut Unum Sint [That They May Be One] 3, emphasis original) to ecumenism to claim to be interested in unity while at the same time declaring that all other Christians belong to Churches that are in some way deficient. How different was the attitude of Benedict's predecessors, who wrote, "In subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the [Roman] Catholic Church--for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame" (Unitatis Redintegratio 3). In Benedict's view, at various times in history groups of Christians wandered from the original, pure Roman Catholic Church, and any notion of Christian unity today is predicated on the idea of those groups abandoning their errors and returning to the Roman Catholic fold. The pope's problem seems to be that he is a theologian rather than a historian. Otherwise he could not possibly make such outrageous statements and think that they were compatible with the spirit of ecumenism that his immediate predecessors promoted.
One of the pope's most strident arguments against the validity of other Churches is that they can't trace their bishops' lineages back to the original apostles, as the bishops in the Roman Catholic Church can. There are three problems with this idea.
First, many Protestants deny the importance of apostolic succession as a guarantor of legitimacy. They would argue that faithfulness to the Bible and/or the teachings of Christ is a better measure of authentic Christian faith than the ability to trace one's spiritual ancestry through an ecclesiastical bureaucracy. A peripheral knowledge of the lives of some of the medieval and early modern popes (e.g., Stephen VI, Sergius III, Innocent VIII, Alexander VI) is enough to call the insistence on apostolic succession into serious question. Moreover, the Avignon Papacy and the divided lines of papal claimants in subsequent decades calls into serious question the legitimacy of the whole approach. Perhaps the strongest argument against the necessity of apostolic succession comes from the Apostle Paul, who was an acknowledged apostle despite not having been ordained by one of Jesus' original twelve disciples. In fact, Paul makes much of the fact that his authority came directly from Jesus Christ rather than from one of the apostles (Gal 1:11-12). Apostolic succession was a useful tool for combating incipient heresy and establishing the antiquity of the churches in particular locales, but merely stating that apostolic succession is a necessary prerequisite for being a true church does not make it so.
The second problem with the new document's insistence upon apostolic succession is the fact that at least three other Christian communions have apostolic succession claims that are as valid as that of the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox Churches, which split from the Roman Catholic Church in 1054, can trace their lineages back to the same apostles that the Roman Catholic Church can, a fact acknowledged by Unitatis Redintegratio 14. The Oriental Orthodox Churches, such as the Coptic and Ethiopic Orthodox Churches, split from the Roman Catholic Church several centuries earlier, but they too can trace their episcopal lineages back to the same apostles claimed by the Roman Catholic Church as its founders. Finally, the Anglican Church, which broke away from the Roman Catholic Church during the reign of King Henry VIII, can likewise trace the lineage of every bishop back through the first archbishop of Canterbury, Augustine. In addition to these three collections of Christian Churches, the Old Catholics and some Methodists also see value in the idea of apostolic succession, and they can trace their episcopal lineages just as far back as Catholic bishops can.
The third problem with the idea of apostolic succession is that the earliest bishops in certain places are simply unknown, and the lists produced in the third and fourth centuries that purported to identify every bishop back to the founding of the church in a particular area were often historically unreliable. Who was the founding bishop of Byzantium? Who brought the gospel to Alexandria? To Edessa? To Antioch? There are lists that give names (e.g., http://www.friesian.com/popes.htm), such as the Apostles Mark (Alexandria), Andrew (Byzantium), and Thaddeus (Armenia), but the association of the apostles with the founding of these churches is legendary, not historical. The most obvious breakdown of historicity in the realm of apostolic succession involves none other than the see occupied by the pope, the bishop of Rome. It is certain that Peter did make his way to Rome before the time of Nero, where he perished, apparently in the Neronian persecution following the Great Fire of Rome, but it is equally certain that the church in Rome predates Peter, as it also predates Paul's arrival there (Paul also apparently died during the Neronian persecution). The Roman Catholic Church may legitimately claim a close association with both Peter and Paul, but it may not legitimately claim that either was the founder of the church there. The fact of the matter is that the gospel reached Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Edessa, and other early centers of Christianity in the hands of unknown, faithful Christians, not apostles, and the legitimacy of the churches established there did not suffer in the least because of it.
All the talk in the new document about apostolic succession is merely a smokescreen, however, for the main point that the Congregation of the Faith and the pope wanted to drive home: recognition of the absolute primacy of the pope. After playing with the words "subsists in" (Lumen Gentium [Dogmatic Constitution on the Church] 8) and "church" (Unitatis Redintegratio 14) in an effort to make them mean something other than what they originally meant, the document gets down to the nitty-gritty. "Since communion with the Catholic Church, the visible head of which is the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter, is not some external complement to a particular Church but rather one of its internal constitutive principles, these venerable Christian communities lack something in their condition as particular churches." From an ecumenical standpoint, this position is a non-starter. Communion with Rome and acknowledging the authority of the pope as bishop of Rome is a far different matter from recognizing the pope as the "visible head" of the entire church, without peer. The pope is an intelligent man, and he knows that discussions with other Churches will make no progress on the basis of this prerequisite, so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the pope, despite his protestations, has no interest in pursuing ecumenism. Trying to persuade other Christians to become Roman Catholics, which is evidently the pope's approach to other Churches, is not ecumenism, it's proselytism.
Fortunately, this document does not represent the viewpoint of all Catholics, either laypeople or scholars. Many ordinary Catholics would scoff at the idea that other denominations were not legitimate Churches, which just happen to have different ideas about certain topics and different ways of expressing a common Christianity. Similarly, many Catholic scholars are doing impressive work in areas such as theology, history, biblical study, and ethics, work that interacts with ideas produced by non-Catholic scholars. In the classroom and in publications, Catholics and non-Catholics learn from each other, challenge one another, and, perhaps most importantly, respect one another.
How does one define the Church? Christians have many different understandings of the term, and Catholics are divided among themselves, as are non-Catholics. The ecumenical movement is engaged in addressing this issue in thoughtful, meaningful, and respectful ways. Will the narrow-minded view expressed in "Responses" be the death-knell of the ecumenical movement? Hardly. Unity among Christians is too important an idea to be set aside. Will the document set back ecumenical efforts? Perhaps, but Christians committed to Christian unity--Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant alike--will get beyond it. The ecumenical movement is alive and well, and no intemperate pronouncement from the Congregation of the Faith, or the current pope, can restrain it for long. Even if ecumenism, at least as it involves the Roman Catholic Church's connection with other Churches, is temporarily set back a hundred years, that distance can be closed either by changes of heart or changes of leadership.
See #2,360
These are technical terms. Using them in the common use leads nowhere.
Whatever. Shooting the breeze about imagianry space balls and unbound universe leads nowhere. Good bye.
You’ll have to explain the meanings of your diectionary definitions as well. What is material? What is matter? What is form? What is actual? What is existence? What is reality? What is thought? What is etymology? Common use of these technical terms results in a meaning soup. A gray goo.
I pretty much agree with that.. Being teenagers as they mostly were.. Jesus mostly spoke in metaphor persona.. and spoke of the "Spirit".. The spirit of the word and of themselves AND of God.. Many christians even to this day miss "the Spirit".. morphing the spirit into some kind of flesh.. like a primate..
ONLY Paul IMO, saw the reality of what Jesus ministered fully.. and maybe Paul missed some things.. The end result of all this, TO ME, is we NEED the Holy SPirit to teach us what we need to be taught of the spirit/SPirit..
Quite a beautiful plan I would say(paraclete).. The spirit is something that must be learned by a human.. Because looking into "mirrors" fools us into thinking WE ARE FLESH..
Later.
I will try not to but you do know what the word itself means:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ - that is, the unveiling, the revealing, and Presentation to earth and heaven of the Lord Jesus Christ (Messiah) as "King of Kings and Lord of Lords".
.....Ping
IMHO, many contentious discussions could be avoided if the correspondents would realize up front that they are unable to agree on the meaning of the words they'd need to use.
That's news to me. Psalm 104:4 says they are fire. They are spiritual beings (asomata, lit. without bodies) who can take any form in their appearance to us. So, their "bodies" are simply appearances.
Gen 19...and they did eat
Genesis 19 is one of those OT passages where one just raises his eyebrows and says 'okay..." and moves on, because the scribe was having mushrooms for dinner that night.
Pretty much like Gnesis 18:1-8 where Abraham feeds God with "butter, and milk, and the calf..."
I think if you keep going at this perplexing rate, within a year you’ll be soo ready for RCIA.
:)
There are many other texts that claim the same...That it inself is not a proof they are. But thanks.
I sense we are wide apart in our understanding of what is involved here, RW. I am not of the school of British Empiricism, nor am I a pragmatist nor a positivist. Thus I do not believe that "representations of sensations, which we determine to be objects" are the sufficient grounds of the truth of reality. Further, logic seems to me not the exclusive criterion by which we can appraise "truth statements." Obviously, if statements are clearly illogical, then we are correct to suspect them. But perfectly logical things may be said and still be falsifications of reality.
I do agree that "we have no knowledge of reality except subjective" knowledge. But there are sources of subjective knowledge that are not tied exclusively to sense perceptions of the external world, and the objectivization of same. Revelation, intuition, perhaps even racial memory, would be examples.
Further, given that I am strongly influenced by Plato, I regard truth as a search, or quest, and never as a "final possession." As observers, we are limited in what we can know of the reality that surrounds us, because we are parts and participants in it, and have no privileged position from which we may view the totality of "all that there is" from a point of view outside that totality.
Other than divine truths (revelation), all truths are thus provisional, and subject to modification or falsification over time as we learn more about the reality we try to truthfully describe, according to our best lights. This seems to me particularly true of scientific truth, because it is exclusively based on observations of external phenomena which of necessity (given the scientific method) are abstracted from their contexts in order to be profitably studied. Parts thus separated from the wholes of which they are parts may not give a comprehensive account of the situation for the simple reason that wholes are ever more than the sum of their constituting parts.
Well, that would be for openers! Perhaps we'll have more to say (that's not the "editorial 'we'" there) on this topic in due course.
Thanks ever so much for writing!
Program review:
If anybody stayed up last night to listen to Coast and the interview of Bruce Lipton by host Lisa Garr they needed extra-strength coffee just to keep up with that pair. Dr Lipton was too heavy on his New Age stuff and not heavy enough on his cell science (which he teaches at a medical school). The interview was okay and consistant with prior interviews, but getting the idea about the mind and DNA would not have been possible from this show alone.
Heeeya...last time I cut my finger was only my imagination...Are y'all from the same club?
Oooo...I though some of them were angels, but later I realized they were just digging for gold. (good thing I have my gold-digger detecting eyeglasses)
Space and time and mathematics such as geometry and algebra for starters. Also the categories, be they Aristotle's or Kant's or somebody later who wonders where these particular categories came from if not from experience. All these are a priori or concepts not from sensation.
We have flesh but are not flesh.. as an Astronaut has a space suit but himself is not protective clothing.. When DNA dies then what is it then.. Living DNA is the same thing as dead DNA.. but something is missing.. Must be a mystery TO YOU..
Science uniquely has a greater degree of confidence in theories which can be and are subjected to many attempts to falsify the theory.
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