Posted on 07/12/2007 11:35:26 AM PDT by Terriergal
Along with unfair stereotypes of other traditions, such are the urban legends surrounding the emerging church—one of the most controversial and misunderstood movements today. As a theologian, I have studied the movement and interacted with its key leaders for years—even more, I happily consider myself part of this movement or "conversation." As an evangelical, I've had my concerns, but overall I think what emerging Christians bring to the table is vital for the overall health of the church. ...snip...
A final stream flowing into the emerging lake is politics. Tony Jones is regularly told that the emerging movement is a latte-drinking, backpack-lugging, Birkenstock-wearing group of 21st-century, left-wing, hippie wannabes. Put directly, they are Democrats. And that spells "post" for conservative-evangelical-politics-as-usual.
I have publicly aligned myself with the emerging movement. What attracts me is its soft postmodernism (or critical realism) and its praxis/missional focus. I also lean left in politics. I tell my friends that I have voted Democrat for years for all the wrong reasons. I don't think the Democratic Party is worth a hoot, but its historic commitment to the poor and to centralizing government for social justice is what I think government should do.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
The Evangelical Covenant goes deeper and deeper into lukewarmness and apostasy.
An older article but was just recently commented on at teampyro:
Left Leaning Politics and the Emerging Church http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2007/07/left-leaning-politics-and-emerging.html
The term “evangelical” has been well and truly hijacked.
As for their politics, leftist politics deny the nature of man as taught in the Bible and as evidenced throughout history.
As for the evils of Christians in politics in general, watch out for the general offense by many of mischaracterizing their opponent in order to slay him. Bringing false witness against your neighbor is still a sin. No one on either side (that I know of) is trying to legislate particular religious beliefs. Everyone uses their own worldview to form their opinions. One poltical party happens to always be in opposition to everything I believe. The other party is often in opposition but not always. So what am I to do? Be indifferent? Pretend these things don't matter and violate my own conscience? Try to sell only half my soul so that no political party feels left out? Frankly the position that we should do nothing is a poltiical position even though those who hold it deny it. You can cry "we are to obey the government" all you want. But please tell me who is disobeying the government. Maybe you could come up with some abortion protesters and Roy Moore. That's hardly everyone. As for Moore, he made a monument with a bunch of historical quotes along with the ten commandments. Read the Declaration of Independence. His monument was a monument to our Nation's history. It wasn't legislation. It didn't establish a religion. But it did acknowledge the source of our rights, that they are God given rights and no government has the authority to take them away. So he disobeyed a court order for the monument's removal, claiming that the court (the government) had no authority to do it. I would not have been so wise or courageous I'm afraid. But nevertheless, he is one person (not a minster of any church...but was rather a holder of pulitic office legally elected by the people of his state). No one else is breaking the law. Protests are legal. Advocacy is legal. Speech is legal (well...supposed to be). Etc. (I'm going to be a lawbreaker in the future if the Democrats have their way. They want to make even voicing and practicing my beliefs illegal.)
I agree that politics is not the mission of the church. (Though I do not believe that to be something the gov't should enforce. Speech was not supposed to be regulated.) As a matter of mission, it should not be the subject of preaching and teaching in the church (beyond what the Bible specifically says), though the accusations will still exist if the church does what it should do and teaches people about what sin is and isn.t If you preach about the sinfulness of abortion and homosexuality leftists are going to start accusing you of politicking, of discrimination, of hate speech......of anything they can in an effort to shut you up. Their conscience can't take it. But shame on those who claim a church seems like it cares more about politics than the gospel just because they allow voter's guides to be passed out and are careful to do it within legal guidelines (even though some of those guidelines are questionable interpretations of actual law). Shame on those who scadalize the presence of an american flag. We help nothing by making sins out of things that are not sins or by slandering people unjustly.
So while I agree that politics is not the mission of the church, I do not agree that christians cannot or even should not form political groups. They are citizens and it is perfectly legal. It is appalling when some accuse them of being an obstacle to the gospel because they are vocal in the polical arena and also happen to be Christian. It is slander to accuse them of trying to impose religious beliefs. It is blind foolishness to say they shouldn't try to impose any morality. Should we just all walk around naked and have sex in the streets like wild animals? Is it bad to be civilized? We must have some moral boundaries. Not killing babies or corrupting our children's minds with extreme perversity are reasonable boundaries. No one will be saved by keeping those boundaries. But let them discover their own sin nature and their guilt before God in some other way (the desire itself should convict them).
Back to the Emergents, their misguided political beliefs are the lesser of my worries about them. Though I sometimes wonder if their movement wasn't founded with more of a leftist political motive than a leftist theological motive. It's just that the two really have to go together. I suppose there is no way I can know and it doesn't really matter. Both errors must be fought only in different arenas.
It's amusing to me that for these leftist religious types the idea of cutting taxes to grow an economy is never viewed as anti-poverty but massive govt welfare programs are.
Those who think Christians should sit back and watch the country deteriorate just can’t accept the fact that we share the responsibility if we do nothing. God has given us a republic. The country is what we the people make it. Christians are not just the prophets proclaiming what others should and shouldn’t do. We are also the Caesar/Ahab/King...of America. God has blessed us with a country where we the people rule. With the blessing comes responsiblity — including the responsibility to see the dangers and evils of socialism.
They’re insane. (oh shame on me for being divisive and inflammatory)
He doesn’t think the Demoncraps are worth a hoot but he’ll vote for them anyway.
I agree.
The dilemma comes when people yell at me for ‘throwing away my vote’ because the real conservatives that run ‘can’t win.’ (”sure they can’t win if everyone thinks like that!”)
I guess at some point I have to disregard their definition of ‘doing nothing’ (e.g.throwing away my vote) and start supporting ‘losers’ in the hope that it will get some attention. In a military engagement there is a place for ‘falling back’ when you are overrun — granted a few may get shot in the process of falling back to a more defensible position, but... what can you do when you’ve been overrun by the opposition (no matter what label they’re wearing!)
I agree.
Isn't that one of the hallmarks of mental illness? the inability to correctly perceive reality? Something like that.
They don't seem to agree with themselves on this point. Only if it comes to 'conservative politics' will they trot out this line and actually stand by it.
This is a bunch of emotional decision making by these ‘emerging’ guys, trying desperately to be relevant and cultural, when they need to be pursuing the unique culture of holy people of God.
No matter how you cut it, Democrats are pro abortion. Period. These guys are conflicted right now, but God knows how to get a hold of His people. This will not stand.
And let me add, I’m ‘pro’ emerging church! They have a message the rest of the body needs to listen to.
Yes exactly. We can't do nothing, but the something we do should be principled. I would rather go down in defeat with an honorable person than win with a dishonorable one.
I haven’t heard a coherent message. Just “we dont’ want to be like those old fashioned boring Christians.” Same old whine as usual.
(And I’ve listened to Doug Pagitt for three hours try and explain himself in a debate with Bob DeWaay.) I’ve listened to Rob Bell, he mangles scripture terribly. I’ve read and listened to Scot McKnight, I’ve listened to McLaren and read some of his stuff. I’ve listened to Anne Lamott, while she is rather charming and self-deprecating, her book about ‘faith’ is certainly not about any Christian faith I’m familiar with. Tony Jones is about as coherent as a nebula...
I think John Macarthur’s Truth War is rightly directed at them. Same with his book Ashamed of the Gospel.
hear hear.
Have you read Miller? ‘Blue Like Jazz’, specifically? I found it to be very good. I didn’t agree 100%, but I agree even less with McArthur on most things beyond the basic gospel.
See, here’s the thing. The religious spirit needs to be destroyed. It’s so controlling and nasty that some people are driven to an adversarial and iconoclastic approach, which is not good. Offending religious people for the sake of offense is counterproductive, but that’s where these guys find themselves.
The control freakish religious spirit must be met with the Spirit’s power manifested in freedom, not anger-tainted attempts at theology.
“The religious spirit needs to be destroyed.”
If you are speaking of the pharisaical spirit, yes, I agree. I don’t see that in Macarthur at all.
But doing this ‘pragmatic’ approach (which is what Miller and the emergents also do — with their rituals and contemplative behaviors thinking that is what brings them closer to God) is all legalism too. (just in a different form)
If you’re going to have rules, you’d better be sure they are the rules God endorses. Every group has rules, and enforcing church discipline doesn’t equal pharisaism. The rules Emergent and the Emerging Church have are not rules endorsed by God, nor are those in the Purpose Driven/seeker sensitive movement. Nor are those in the Charismatic movement. They are all adding to the gospel. That is what results in the legalism you so despise.
Hm. I seem to recall Jesus using pretty vitriolic words at the pharisees of that time. Same with most of the men of God at one time or another. In fact, Elijah taunted the prophets of Baal (which is what false teachers are, even if they claim the name of Christ).
cyrano, haven’t you read Blue Like Jazz?
I’ll tell ya one thing — that he thinks Anne Lamott is so good has me shuddering already.
http://www.donaldmillerwords.com/bluelikejazz.php
Anne Lamott is an angry, vulgar, bitter woman. (extremely left-leaning, endorsed by Jim Wallis and sojourners etc.)
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