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To: DungeonMaster
The sad truth is that you said a mouthful when you said "God likes to be asked" then, with utmost irony, you explain why you ask Mary rather than God. Why not pray the way the bible says to pray?

WHERE did I "explain" THAT? I NEVER ask Mary "rather than" God. I mean, I don't ask God to pray to Himself for me, but as far as what I want is concerned, I ask God AND the saints, AND my friends.

So, try this: Suppose I know you like chocolate cake. I can bake you one. I can also ask the boss-lady to bake you one AS WELL AS, not INSTEAD OF, me baking one. You get TWO chocolate cakes -- which you like.

So I say "God likes to be asked." So I ask Him, and I ask you to ask Him TOO. So it is that we have threads here asking for prayers because so-and-so is having surgery or something. God likes to be asked. So lets all get together and ask, already! He wants to be asked? Asking we can do!

For reasons best known to Himself, my non-Catholic Mother-in-law seems to pray "efficaciously". To me that is a complete mystery on many, many levels. But when my kid was very, very sick (a long time ago) I prayed, AND I asked my MIL to pray AS WELL AS, not instead of, me. And the boss-lady and I took the 'orrible brat child to a Baptist minister friend of ours who is also a man of great piety and of prayer. We all prayed TOGETHER. There was nothing "rather than" about it!

And the rest of your post seems to indicate that at least, I failed to be clear.. It doesn't "boil down" at all, in my view. As I said, the relationship between what God does and anybody's prayers is mysterious. Mysteries don't boil. That's almost a defining characteristic.

My point 2 is NOT that Mary's asking something MAKES that something God's will. It's that she wouldn't ask it if it weren't God's will.

My whole religious life is based on the notion that through Christ I please the Father, and this has next to nothing (if not nothing at all) to do with me. My Hail Marys are based on the notion that Christ's atoning death has made God's grace available to the world. Consequently this stuff about warm fuzzy mother figures doesn't have a recognizable referent in my piety or my thinking.

Please help me here. I don't see how your post has any meaningful content-related point of tangency with my post. I think we're probably both making some communication-blocking assumptions.

450 posted on 07/11/2007 11:15:50 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
So I say "God likes to be asked." So I ask Him, and I ask you to ask Him TOO. So it is that we have threads here asking for prayers because so-and-so is having surgery or something. God likes to be asked. So lets all get together and ask, already! He wants to be asked? Asking we can do!

If it's a simple matter of "the more the better" why not ask demons and dogs to pray for us? The bible never says not to pray to Mary, nor does it say not to pray to Demons nor does it say not to ask Dogs to pray for us. If all we need is for the bible to not say not to do something then that should improve our chances of being heard. Regarding God liking to be asked, He also doesn't like repetition.

452 posted on 07/11/2007 11:26:41 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.)
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