Babbling in "tongues" at the elevation of the host like I found myself in the middle of a whole church full, every seat filled, of people doing that?
Now what "Distressing, questionable practices" are you referring to? Is it accepting the gifts God sends?
A priest who had his skull broken in several places in an accident months before, after the service, was "prayed over" by some laypeople. He went right down backwards on the marble altar floor. "Oh look, Father X got slain in the spirit", some seemed to think it comical. When somebody offered him a hand up, he shook them away angrily, and got up by himself.
During that weekend, they had tried to convince us that no one could be slain in the spirit against their will.
Will that happen at a Tridentine mass? Are these truly gifts of the spirit? Power of suggestion? Which spirit? Can the gifts of the Holy Spirit be coounterfeited?
I came home and threw up after that mass, after I had gotten down on my knees in front of a crucifix in my living room that I had had a priest bless, prayed for guidance and an answer asking if it was God's will. Another priest told me to stay away from it. Many bad things happened to me and others, Catholics and Protestant alike. At least five (the count keeps going up as I recall some of it) were mentally imbalanced, some already that way, others went off the deep end. My friend who had come back from Detroit, an Hispanic Catholic who had seen diabolical happenings there and a priest who got mad at her for refusing to collect any more money for him that he was misappropriating to himself, she finally turned him in. She was at that mass, and her opinion was that it was witchcraft. Another friend thinks so, too, as did the late Father Vincent Miceli, S.J., in the appendix to his book "The Antichrist" cites another book called "None Dare Call it Witchcraft", Rushdoony (sp?).
At that service I went up for prayer, the whole time praying the St. Michael prayer, and didn't go over, thank heaven.
I pored over the scriptures, different versions, and nowhere found any incident of anyone falling over backwards under the power of God. If you look in the Douay Rheims translation where it is recounted one of the soldiers laid hands on Jesus to arrest him, the translation renders it "fell backwards".
Who knows? Nobody for certain. It is an experiential thing that cannot be proven one way or another.
An old lady was killed after one of those services (not a Catholic one), think it was one of the churches in the south, when some people fell on her when she and they were slain in the spirit. They put her on a bench in the church, and she died later. They didn't get medical help for her. I didn't think I'd be able to find where I had read about that several years back, but the archives are still up.
"It's not safe to get "slain in the spirit" these days. This practice, which involves faith healers causing people to swoon by laying their hands on them, has become a costly issue for two major charismatic ministries whose "catchers" were not quick enough on their feet. In June, 67 year-old Evelyn Kuykendall of Marshville, North Carolina, won a $300,000 jury verdict from Texas faith healers Charles and Frances Hunter. The Hunters testified that the woman had swooned in a "peculiar" way during one of their rallies and their "catchers" were not able to reach her. The woman, who had been afflicted with spinal disease, broke her back during the incident. "In another incident in September, 1986, Ella Peppard, 85, died 15 days after someone "slain in the spirit" fell on her and fractured her hip during a Benny Hinn rally. The woman's family sued Hinn, pastor of the Orlando Christian Center, for $5 million (it was Hinn who was touching people on the forehead that night which caused the fall). Carl Hughes of Oklahoma City, attorney for the victim's family, said Hinn's ministry recently awarded the family a large but undisclosed cash settlement a day before the trial was to begin. Hughes said videotapes of the incident disclosed that Hinn's ministry failed to quickly summon an ambulance, despite repeated calls to do so." I was partially slain in the spirit one night at a Full Gospel Fellowship Businessmens' Fellowship meeting. It was a heady experience, I won't say what happened the next morning. The minister was John Wesley Fletcher. Yes, I did speak "something" unntelligible, renounced all of it later and never spoke in "tongues" again, never wanted to. Google him.
These are the kinds of people who laid hands on Catholics that got it started in the Catholic Church back around the outpouring at Notre Dame University. E. Michael Jones wrote an article about it in a back issue of "Fidelity" magazine that is probably no longer available.
I don't understand why the popes didn't look more deeply at it. I never heard of either one actually involved in that phenomenon themselves.
Though I do not know how to post a link, you can read a letter from John Paul II to leaders of the Charismatic "Catholic Fraternity" here: http://www.catholicfraternity.net/images/letteraA.htm
Lastly I include this article from Catholics for Truth: http://www.catholic-jhb.org.za/tracts/renewal.htm
CATHOLIC CHARISMATIC RENEWAL: ORTHODOX OR HERESY?
Introduction
The Church was born on Pentecost Sunday (Acts 2:1-14). In obedience to Jesus’ request after his resurrection, the apostles remained in Jerusalem to await the gift and promise of the Father; the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-5). The Holy Spirit would then empower them to be witnesses for Jesus (Acts 1:8). Together with Mary, the mother of Jesus, they prayerfully awaited this gift (Acts 1:14).
When the day of Pentecost came, a violent wind filled the house where they were sitting, tongues of fire came to rest on each of them and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them (Acts 2:2-4).
Historical Perspective
For the first few centuries of the Church’s history, these gifts (or “charisms”) of the Spirit were very common in the lives of believers. They are listed by St Paul in 1 Cor 12:1-ll : wisdom, the word of knowledge, the gift of healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, the ability to discern different spirits and the mysterious gift of tongues and its interpretation.
These gifts are the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and are given by God for the common good, as he determines: they are not “earned’ or “merited’. We might well ask: why are these gifts not so apparent in the Catholic church of today? In fact, these gifts so impressed the magician, Simon Magus (Acts 9:19), that he offered the apostles money that he might also “lay hands” on people in order to receive these gifts and power. This is known as the sin of “simony”.
Institutionalisation
As the church became more institutionalised, the gifts of the Spirit became less common and were seen only in the lives of the great “Saints’. Some, such as St Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) initially thought that they were meant only for the early Church, to “kick-start” her, so to speak. However, he later withdrew this opinion in his Retractions, when he himself witnessed the gifts in abundance in his own Diocese. It was apparent to him then that the gifts occurred where people had expectant faith. Later one sees the gifts in evidence in the lives of St Francis of Assisi (1182-1226), St Dominic (1170-1221), St Catherine of Sienna (1330-1380), St Teresa of Avila (1515-1582), St John Bosco (1815-1888), The Cure of Ars (St John Vianney – 1786-1859) and many others down the centuries. The Cure of Ars is known to have had the gift of tongues.
Interestingly, leading Catholic scholar Father George Montague S.M., former head of the Catholic Biblical Association, and leading Catholic ecumenical theologian, Father Kilian McDonnell, O.S.B., have published a major study whose findings are significant. It is entitled “Christian Initiation and Baptism in the Holy Spirit”, and is published by Liturgical Press, Collegeville, Minnesota (1991). They conclude that Baptism in the Spirit is in essence what Scripture and the Fathers of the Church for the first eight centuries of the Church’s life describe as integral to the experience of the Sacraments of Christian Initiation. From Carthage, Poitiers, Jerusalem, Caesarea, Constantinople to Antioch and Cyrrhus (in Syria) there are witnesses to the reception of the charisms within the rite of initiation …… accepting that Baptism in the Spirit is not joining a movement, but embracing the fullness of Christian initiation, which belongs to the Church.
Since publication of the study, many parishes have provided for confirmation candidates to experience a “Life in the Spirit Seminar” as part of the course culminating in reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation.
Pope Leo XIII and the Spirit
Between 1895 and 1903, Sister (now Blessed) Elena Guerra, foundress of the Oblate Sisters of The Holy Spirit in Italy, wrote 12 confidential letters to Pope Leo XIII, asking that he foster devotion in the church to the Holy Spirit.
As a result, the Pope published his encyclical on the holy Spirit Divinum Illud Munus in l897. He also sent a private letter to all bishops, prescribing that the Novena for Pentecost be prayed at the dawn of the new (20th) century.
God of Surprises
On the night of December 31st, 1900, a group of Methodists, led by Agnes Osman and Rev Charles Parham of Topeka, Kansas, experienced an unexpected outpouring of the Holy Spirit after studying the Acts of the Apostles. The request of Pope Leo XIII had received only a half-hearted response from the Catholic bishops, so God turned to his “little ones”, the “anawim”. Thus the modern-day Pentecostal movement began among Protestants.
A Council and the New Pentecost
The call of Pope Leo XIII was picked up by Pope (now Blessed) John XXIII in April 1959 on beatifying Sister Elena Guerra. When convoking the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council later that year Pope John prayed specifically for “the Divine Spirit to renew his wonders in our time, as at a ‘New Pentecost’”. The Council, in essence, was to lay the foundation for this New Pentecost by providing “new wineskins” for the Church (see Mt 9:16-17).
Catholic Renewal starts
In February, 1967, during a retreat and birthday party (appropriately), at Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, one of the students, Patti Gallagher-Mansfield felt drawn to pray before the Blessed Sacrament in the chapel. She, and a number of other students who had joined her were later found prostrate before the Tabernacle. There, before Jesus’ Eucharistic presence, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal was born. They had all been overwhelmed by the majesty, power and presence of God.
The movement spread rapidly throughout the United States and the world. It is estimated that today in excess of 75 million Catholics worldwide have had contact with this renewal and have experienced their own personal Pentecost.
The 1975 Rome Conference
During the holy year of 1975, before ten thousand participants of the international Charismatic Conference assembled in St Peter’s Basilica, Rome, Pope Paul VI described this spiritual renewal as a ”chance”, or “opportunity” for the Church.
At the end of his address, the Pope put aside his prepared speech and added (spontaneously): “This message is for those present here who do not belong to your movement: they should unite themselves with you…..and we would say only this: today one lives one’s faith with devotion, depth, energy and joy, or that faith will die out” (“New Covenant” magazine, July 1975, pg 25 et al).
Enthusiasm and Emotion
Some feel (wrongly) that prayer meetings and the emotion sometimes experienced there are at the “heart” of this renewal, and therefore, not for them. We are not God’s “frozen people” and it is the joy of coming to know Jesus Christ as Lord (being evangelised) that is at the heart of the renewal. As a result of the graces of baptism and confirmation being released in one, often after “laying hands” on one another (in an unsacramental way), this often occurs. This new experience of God is not a new sacrament. Often our faith needs to be moved from the “head” to the “heart” in order to be less intellectual. We need to “know” God, rather than “know about him”, only. One need not be a theologian in order to achieve salvation. Authentic Catholic Christianity is knowing Jesus Christ in a vital personal relationship empowered by the Holy Spirit. It is much more than mere “devotion” to the Holy Spirit.
Prayer Meetings
Prayer meetings have arisen as a result of believers wanting to share the Good News of Jesus Christ with one another. Here one experiences firsthand what is recorded in Ephesians 5:18- 20: an emphasis on prayer of praise and thanksgiving, rather than endless petitions, or “bargaining with God” that many of us are prone to.
Catholic prayer meetings are noticeably more subdued than those of our Pentecostal brethren. They are not much different, in fact, from a good, old-fashioned Catholic parish mission.
Pastoral Guidelines
As in all new movements, there are some shadows in the overall picture, however the cure is not the denial of existence of abuses, but their proper use. Some moths will always be attracted to the flame. There are those who have been swept away by what is new and exciting for them and have lost sight of their Catholic identity, riches and heritage in genuine, but naïve endeavours at ecumenism – also by an overemphasis on the healing ministry. Here Catholic bishops have been alert in providing guidelines, especially to our young people who yearn for warmer fellowship, more alive liturgies with enthusiastic participation, parish Bible study groups and opportunities for spontaneous prayer. This is needed to stem the flow of our young people to Pentecostal and fundamentalist churches.
Charismatic or Pentecostal?
The word “Pentecostal” has for some, “cultural shocks”. Some have visions of “holy-rollers”, and people feel threatened. All the baptized are in fact “charismatic”, as baptism leaves all open to receiving the gifts of the Spirit. There should be no distinction between “charismatic” and “non-charismatic” Christians.
In paragraph 2 of Lumen Gentium, Vatican II’s document on the Church, there is an important passage on the “charisms”: ‘It is not only through the sacraments and Church ministries that the Holy Spirit sanctifies and leads the People of God and enriches them with virtues….he distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank ….These charismatic gifts, whether they are the most outstanding or the more simple and widely diffused are to be received with thanksgiving and consolation, for they are exceedingly useful and suitable for the needs of the Church.”
Positive Aspects At the heart of this renewal, there is a much-needed call to conversion, a conscious adherence to Jesus Christ as Lord, Saviour and Redeemer, a new docility to the promptings of the Spirit and actual awareness of the realities received at initiation.
One of the outstanding fruits has been a new thirst among so many to know the Bible better. The words of St Jerome ring down the centuries: “Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ”.
From a 1969 statement issued by the United States bishops, we read: “Theologically the movement has legitimate reasons for existence. It has a strong biblical basis. It would be difficult to inhibit the working of the Spirit, which manifested itself so abundantly in the early Church. Thus the charismatic gifts of today cannot simply be denied as impossible or rejected as contrary to Catholic teaching. Even misuse of these gifts does not justify condemnation of the gifts themselves.”
A positive aspect is the laudable initiative of bringing together Christians of different denominations in prayer. The shepherds of the Church have a duty to see that this does not deviate into a “false” ecumenism where differences are smoothed away. Love for the Bible, fervent participation in the celebration of the Eucharist, a renewed devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and a renewed sense of mission all bode well for the future. It is recommended that priests who are wary of this movement associate themselves with participants and get to know the movement “from within”, especially to guide our young people, many of whom are leaving the Church for what they perceive as warmer fellowship where the gospel is preached with power.
Since becoming Pope, John Paul II has met several times with international charismatic leaders. Perhaps the most poignant of these meetings occurred a few days before the attempt on the Pope’s life on 13th May, 1981. In providing guidelines for this renewal at the request of its leaders, Pope John Paul has referred to the renewal as “ a very important aspect of Catholic spirituality”.
In his homily on Pentecost Sunday, May 14th, 1989, the Pope said: “I earnestly exhort you to generously open your mind and heart to receive a large outpouring of the Holy Spirit. May a new Pentecost descend upon you so that each of you might become spiritually renewed and continue on a new road of evangelical witness”
We should remember that without the Holy Spirit the Church is nothing but a dead institution.
Written and compiled by John Lee and Frank Bompas and checked for theological correctness by Father Michael Austen SJ
For further tracts, write to Catholics for Truth, c/o Frank Bompass or John Lee, PO Box 82328, Southdale 2135 or telephone (011) 643-4313 Email: fbompas@iabsamail.co.za
PRINTED AND DISTRIBUTED WITH THE ECCLESIASTICAL APPROVAL OF THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF JOHANNESBURG
Obviously, I am a Catholic charismatic, and have been since 1984. In 1994 was in Rome with 200 other Catholic charismatics in a private audience with JPII. We extended out hands in prayer and prayed in tongues over our Holy Father and he genuinely welcomed it and appreciated it. As we gather together, why shouldn't we praise God in the gift of tongues he has given us at the elevation of the Body and Blood of Jesus our Savior.
I rejoice in the gift of faith God has given to you, but I assure you, God has even more for you. Continue to pray and seek from God all that he wants for you. God cannot be outdone.