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To: P-Marlowe
"I believe that rapture is the lie that is causing the "strong delusion" and God sends it to test us."....One other thing. If God is sending someone a "strong delusion" it is not as a test, it is as a judgment. God does not send a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie unless that person has already totally rejected the truth.

If the word "judgment" is used instead of "test" what are you being judged on in this particular instance? If God said that He would send strong delusion so they should believe a lie then what lie is it? Those that "have already totally rejected the truth" already belong to Satan. He wants Christians and will lie to get them.

Unless you are willing to state that every Christian who believes in the rapture has "pleasure in unrighteousness," then the lie in II Thess. 2:10 has NOTHING to do with belief in the Rapture.

I am not willing to say that. I am willing to say they don't know it is a lie. They believe it with every fiber of their being. God tells us that those that believe the lie have pleasure in it.

Most people, if not all, who have pleasure in unrighteousness, (i.e., unrepentant sinners who reject Christ) mock the idea of a Rapture and make fun of those who believe in the Rapture of the Church. They make fun of most Christians, no doubt, but they take exquisite pleasure in mocking those who believe that someday the Church will be raptured to heaven.

I understand your feelings P-Marlowe but I am not one of them. I do not mock or make fun of those that believe in rapture. I do try to tell them of my concerns.

So don't go blaming God for sending a delusion

I don't blame Him at all, those are His Words, He warns us.

99 posted on 07/09/2007 12:12:24 PM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: Ping-Pong; blue-duncan; attiladhun2; Iscool; labette; tnarg; grantswank
If the word "judgment" is used instead of "test" what are you being judged on in this particular instance?

Your rejection of Christ and your taking pleasure in unrighteouness. When God sends a strong delusion that you might believe a lie, he has stopped knocking at the door of your heart. At that point your fate is sealed. You are going to hell, so you might as well be happy about it. All that God needs to do to "send you a strong delusion" is to simply stop working in your life and leave you to your own devices.

If God said that He would send strong delusion so they should believe a lie then what lie is it?

that there is "pleasure" in unrighteousness. It is similar to when God hardened Pharoah's heart. Pharoah didn't want to let the Children of Israel go, so God made it easier for him to follow his own devices by hardening his heart.

Those that "have already totally rejected the truth" already belong to Satan. He wants Christians and will lie to get them.

And if God has given them over to Satan, then they will believe the lie, they will believe their delusions, they will reject the gospel.

All of this has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with whether or not you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture or no rapture at all. The belief in the rapture is simply our hope that we will not be present during the wrath that is to come. If we are here during that day of wrath, then we'll just have to deal with it. If we are taken up to the Marriage Supper before that happens, then I guess we'll just have to deal with that.

Tell you what, just sit next to a pre-tribber at the Marriage supper and they'll explain it to you then.

I am not willing to say that. I am willing to say they don't know it is a lie. ?

It is not a lie. It is a reasonable deduction regarding a mystery that is scripturally sound.

They believe it with every fiber of their being.

Baloney. I believe it. But not with every fiber of my being, that's for sure. By accusing those who believe it as believing in a lie, I would venture to guess that you believe in a post tribulation rapture "with every fiber or your being." Otherwise, you would not be claiming that pre-tribulationists are being deliberately deluded by God so that they can believe the lie.

God tells us that those that believe the lie have pleasure in it.

Boy you are really taking that out of context. It is those who have pleasure in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS that will believe the lie in 2 Thess 2:10. Now as I said before, unless you are willing to say that everyone who believes in a pre-trib rapture "takes pleasure in unrighteousness", then I think you ought to stop using that verse to condemn us. It has nothing to do with eschatology. It has to do with soteriology.

I do not mock or make fun of those that believe in rapture. I do try to tell them of my concerns.

While at the same time accusing us of having pleasure in unrighteousness. If your hermenutics are that bad in regard to II Thess 2:10, then I would have to question your hermenutics in regard to your ideas about the rapture.

Get a grip Ping. This issue is not life or death.

100 posted on 07/09/2007 12:38:13 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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