This is going back to the "tribes" issue. Two interesting questions have been brought up.
11 Chronicles 34:6 And so did he in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their mattocks round about.
The question is if the northern tribes are scattered what was that scripture in reference to. The questioner believes it shows that the tribes had melded. My answer was 11 Kings 17:24....other men were placed in those cities.
If you have another answer please let me know.
Also, she brought up the prophetess Anna - Luke 2:36, being of the tribe of Asher and living in Jerusalem.
Any help with these two questions would be greatly appreciated.
......Ping-Pong
I have another question for you.
[11 Chronicles 34:6] And so did he in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their mattocks round about.
The question is if the northern tribes are scattered what was that scripture in reference to. The questioner believes it shows that the tribes had melded. My answer was 11 Kings 17:24....other men were placed in those cities.
Well....first of all....there is no question that the ten northern tribes were removed. There are a multitude of verses that show that to be the case. In addition....there are no specific verses that speak of their return from the Assyrian captivity. Your selection of [II Kings 17:24] does indeed prove that the King of Assyria brought folks in from Babylon to re inhabit Samaria deserted by the exile of the Israelites. They are still living there in the first century and Simon Magus [Acts 8] is one of their descendants!
The mention of the cities in the tribal areas of Manasseh, Ephraim, Simeon and Naphtali is to show that the entire area of Israel was being cleansed. It does not mean that these cities still remained standing. This is transpiring about eight years into Josiah's reign (verse 3 of II Chronicles 34) and Josiah became King in 640 B.C., so it is almost a hundred years after the Assyrian exile took place in 722 B.C.
The word Mattocks can also be translated as "Ruins" as you can see here on the right hand side where different translations indeed refer to them just that way.
The map shows Naphtali in the extreme north of Israel and Simeon in the extreme south. Manasseh, being split, covered the east as well as the west. Ephraim, being the leading tribe of Israel and in the center symbolized completeness of the cleansing by Josiah. He was so determined to wipe away the remnants of paganism and idolatry he even burned the bones of the priests on their alters (verse 5). Remember our study from [I Kings 13:1-2 about the Man of God? This is the result of that prophecy.
When the King of Assyria took the Israelites....he took them all [II Kings 17:18] leaving only Judah which at that time was composed of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi [I Kings 12:22-23]. Benjamin was the tribe spoken of in [I Kings 11:13] and the Levites left Israel because of what happened in [I Kings 12:31-32]. [II Chronicles 11:13-17] tells of the priests leaving Israel and coming to Judah, joining their brothers, the Benjamites....and eventually becoming known as Jews also.
If someone is telling you that this verse [II Chronicles 34;6] proves that the Northern Kingdom of Israel still inhabited this area during the reign of Josiah...they just do not have a good grasp of biblical history. [II Kings 17:23] itself, written after the return of Judah from Babylon 200 years later......says "They (The Ten Tribes) are still there....in Assyria"!
I'm kind of running short on time this evening....so I'll get back to you on Anna, the prophetess of [Luke 2:36]. I'm pingin' Doug cause he likes history and also Chuck cause I see he is active again on this thread. It's been an interesting thread....hasn't it?
This has always been a tricky little scripture for some who say Israel was deported in 721 B.C. to Assyria....and never came back. This scripture has also been used by many to "Absolutely Prove" those of us holding that position....of our error. The Tribe of Asher, of course....being one of the ten northern tribes was never mentioned in Old testament scripture, along with the other nine.....of ever returning to the Promised Land.....Israel.
Judah (Judah, Benjamin & Levi) was exiled herself to Babylon 125 years later....but the scriptures record their return thoroughly. The Books of Ezra and Nehemiah tell of the return of Judah from the Babylonian captivity after 70 years and mention nothing about the other tribes at all! Only Judah, Benjamin and Levi are spoken of in these books.
So......where did Anna of the tribe of Asher come from? If you notice.....she is a pretty important lady! Luke calls her a Prophetess....the daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher. For her to have rated all these distinctive adjectives she evidently was being singled out. Indeed, she along with Simeon, become the first prophets of the New Testament. They both identify Our Lord as the promised Messiah immediately. [Luke 2:25-38] Luke also mentions other female prophets, Philip's daughters....[Acts 21:9] but does not specifically say of what they prophecy.
From reading the scripture it appears that Anna never leaves the temple and the question....I assume....is, "What is she doing here (in Jerusalem) if she and her tribe have been exiled?"
We in the Twenty First Century consider the ten northern tribes lost to history. We don't know for sure who they might be.....(we have opinions), but there remains no definitive, authoritative source we can turn to for the exact location of the descendants. On the other hand....the folks of the First Century (this includes Luke and the others) knew exactly who they were....and where they were!
[Matthew 10:5-6] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. When Our Lord gave this commandment to the Twelve He did not pass out any Rand McNallys to them. They all knew where Israel was!
[John 21:15-17] So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
So......where do we find Peter...eventually? We don't ever find him in Rome, but we find him in Babylon writing to the folks on the southern shores of the Black Sea. [1 Peter 1:1-2] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The words "Strangers Scattered" in the Greek means "Israelites of the Dispersion" living in foreign countries. That's who these folks in [1 Peter 1:1-2] were and that's where a portion of them lived.....500 miles from Jerusalem. Other tribes lived in Babylon....closer yet and portions of their populations still visited for the festivals....those who had not forgotten. Obviously Anna would be counted in this number (folks who had not forgotten).
I always like pointing out the fact that Josephus was well aware of the location of Israel in the first century and he writes of that in Antiquities XI, Chapter 5, Paragraph 2, lines 6-7. He says: "There are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers." The two tribes he mentions are Judah and Benjamin (The Jews) that are subject to the Romans. The Levites owned no property so were counted among the others. The ten tribes are known to him as "Israel" and they are beyond the Euphrates (Babylon/Persia).
The point I'm making here is that everyone knew where most of Israel was in the First Century and many of the tribes were still in what we would call the Mid east. Other tribes and parts of other tribes may have already migrated through the Caucasus Mountains and started to spread out through Asia and Europe......but many of them remained fairly close to Jerusalem and those that remembered their heritage....... visited.
Anna's Father was Phanuel and it was said he descended from Asher.....or did it? [Luke 2:36] "Young's Literal Translation" And there was Anna, a prophetess, daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher, she was much advanced in days, having lived with an husband seven years from her virginity. Was Anna of the tribe of Asher or was Phanuel of the tribe of Asher or were they both of the tribe of Asher. Anna could have married an Asherite (her husband of seven years) and the statement "A daughter of Phanuel" could also mean she was descended from Phanuel.
[1 Chronicles 4:4] And Penuel the father of Gedor, and Ezer the father of Hushah. These are the sons of Hur, the firstborn of Ephratah, the father of Bethlehem. Verse 1 shows this Phanuel (Greek spelling versus Hebrew) as a descendant of Judah! Was Anna just a descendant of this man and had she married into the tribe of Asher. Who knows! It's not important!
The fact that the Northern Tribes were exiled and never returned as a body is scripture and all the nitpicking about this verse [Luke 2:36] is silly. It shows one person out of millions of Israelites, mentioned as being in and around Jerusalem awaiting the Messiah. There is absolutely no reason to question the veracity of the continued exile of the Ten Tribes because of Anna. She....as a daughter of Israel.....had more right than the Romans to be there.
