The House of Israel is the one who is being addressed and they are told what they had done. That is why they ask, 'what shall we do'. The English is very clear, but you guys have a problem with simple English sentences. Are we still on this? The Jews, to whom Peter was talking, was right there in front of him. He refereed to Israel. I can't believe you parse the passage this way. You would have to be so mired in your own prior belief you can't read clearly.
But, the real point is, that you try to use this passage as some evidence that Israel has merged with Judah, against Hosea, and that passage clearly and without doubt can be seen legitimately another way. Therefore, it is no evidence at all. Do you understand the meaning of this fact to the support of your belief?
And where does it state that they would forget who they were as part of the curse on them-no where! The curse is that they would cease to be a Kingdom, not a people. The curse is on them as a people and it will continue until the Millennnial reign when all 12 tribes are reinstated and receive their land inhertances as stated very clearly in Ezek.48.
You yourself in a prior post, posted a passage from the Old Testament, using forgetfulness as God's judgment on them.
If you cease to be identified with a group (kingdom) for 6 centuries, you have forgotten who you were, as God intended. Later God will reunite them, after His purposes have been fulfilled.
But that "curse" was not on all 12 tribes. Judah clearly remembers.
Ezekiel has nothing to do with any notion of any "millennium" so named by those who impose their pre concepts on Revelation symbolism. If you think it does, post the specific passage(s) and explain them.
No, that is not the simplest explanation, nor is it consistent with prophecy and God's promises, since there is no history of it, nor is it in prophecy that those tribes would forget who they were!
I have already shown you the history. And I have shown you where you did not understand the the term in the parts of history you posted. For Hosea to reunite the two Houses, under one head they pick, which has not happened yet, and the consensus being that Israel vanished from history, how can you reach any other conclusion, except from a prior accepted belief system seeking to impose itself on the facts?
You belong to a sacred cow. I seek to make burgers out of it.
Dumbest thing I every heard.
Actually, I'd say basing your doctrine on a consensus contrary to evidence and without clear evidence for it is pretty dumb.
Well, doesn't he say that the blacks have forgotten their heritage as well?
Are you seriously saying the two are related?
That view that an entire people have forgotten who they are is for kooks and you British Israelite guys fit right in there with them.
You doubt the power of God to follow through with His judgments?
That was because they weren't a kingdom in Italy or Palestine at the time of the Roman Empire. They were under the authority of Rome, not a Kingdom. And a Kingdom doesn't have to be a particular size. A kingdom can be quite small.
You missed the point. A kingdom is the people. "Kingdom" is just a name describing a group of people. The people and the kingdom are one. You are trying to impute meaning to an abstract term. Throughout the scriptures God cares about people, and about groups like a "kingdom" only that it is a name meaning the people.
Those were the tribes moved by Assyria. There is no record of those tribes moving anywhere else-now is there?. So stop repeating things that has nothing to do with proving your theory. We know that the 10 tribes were dispersed to the Assyrian empire that is in the records. What is not in the records is that those same tribes went anywhere. That is what you have to show to prove your thesis. Not that they were in Northern Assyria.
There are numerous plates of inscriptions available that show people dressed in western Semite garb. There are numerous letters to the Assyrian king that mention Israelites being, called "Gamerians", traced back to "Khumri (Omri).
These letters were assembled by R.F Harper in 1930 and were translated by Leroy Waterman and published by the University of Michigan.
There are missives from Assyrian outposts near when the Median and Israelite tribes were placed, those that had not already moved to other places, after being impressed into tilling the land for tribute to the king, showing clear Israelite priestly clothing, being sighted moving north through what is now Turkey.
There are translated records of Israelite communities having trouble with Assyrian tax collectors, and prevailing because of numbers.
Why have you not been exposed to any of this?
I don't have to prove anything. You have to prove that they did. Since there is no records of any such movement, it is an historical myth. Your logic is as bad as your historical knowledge. History is about showing facts, which you cannot do, not putting forth conjecture and then asking me to prove them wrong. I can't prove that a UFO didn't move them either.
I have presented evidence. You seem to forget we are talking about 6 centuries worth of history between the fall of Assyria and Jewish Palestine.
The greatest part of the remaining tribes escaped from the Assyrian rule after the fall. Many went north. Many stayed in the land and were called other names.
Most had probably forgotten all relationship with Judah by then, except through tales. We are talking about a lot time here.
The notion of the vast number of Israelites merging with Judah appears false on its face, and appears to be the realm of those who haven't' researched further into the matter. All this makes up a prima facie conclusion.
The only way to challenge a prima facie conclusion is with greater facts, which you have not provided.
Yes, that is true. And those of the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (known today as Jews) would be the heirs to the Covenant. Are there individuals who do not know they have Jewish blood, yes I am sure there are. But an entire group of 10 tribes didn't stop knowing who they were and become a different race of people.
You still are using a preconception of a consensus opinion that all were/are Jews. After all these centuries, the world can reasonably be said to be virtually covered with the seed of Abraham, and you say it is all comprehended in about 5 million or so Jews?
The word "Jew" is a mistranslation of the word "loudaious" and is to mean specifically the remnant of Judah, and would never have been applied to the tribes of Israel except the House of Judah, Judah and Benjamin.
Even if the tribes merged with Judah, Judah would not have allowed them to be called Jews. Jews have been very proud and territorial of their royal patent.
Hosea will be fulfilled after the Millennial reign. There is still a Tribulation ahead in which most of mankind is going to be wiped out, including 3/4 of the seed of Abraham. So, your attempts to deal with the population issue in Hosea are based on your own poor theology which doesn't know that God is going to repopulate Israel with the 12 tribes after most are destroyed, as stated very clearly in Matt.24 and Zech.13
We already discussed this. You have provided no link between Hosea and what you call the Millennium. You don't even know how the millennium will come about applied in real world physical existence, the nature of it applied there to or any connection of ancient peoples and prophecies related to that construct from complete symbolism.
I'll bet you believe in a "rapture" so God's chullins will be able to avoid pain in their bodies, too. And you call mine "bad theology".
[The House of Israel is the one who is being addressed and they are told what they had done. That is why they ask, 'what shall we do'. The English is very clear, but you guys have a problem with simple English sentences.]
Are we still on this? The Jews, to whom Peter was talking, was right there in front of him. He refereed to Israel. I can't believe you parse the passage this way. You would have to be so mired in your own prior belief you can't read simple English.
It is you that can't read a simple English sentence.
But ofcourse, that should be expected from someone who would be so stupid as to say that that 'you' in English, is always in the objective case.
You must be kidding!
Yes, he was referring to Israel, and he called them the 'house of Israel'.
So it is you, that are so determined to cling to false theory that you would read a simple English sentence wrong.
But, the real point is, that you try to use this passage as some evidence that Israel has merged with Judah, against Hosea, and that passage clearly and without doubt can be seen legitimately another way. Therefore, it is no evidence at all. Do you understand the meaning of this fact to the support of your belief?
What that passage shows is that both the House of Judah and the House of Israel were present in the Land at the time of Christ, so the House of Israel did not become another people and were in fact, known as Jews, with the House of Judah.
So, the fact that the House of Israel was back in the Land, as made clear by scripture defeats your entire mythological theory.
[ And where does it state that they would forget who they were as part of the curse on them-no where! The curse is that they would cease to be a Kingdom, not a people. The curse is on them as a people and it will continue until the Millennnial reign when all 12 tribes are reinstated and receive their land inheritances as stated very clearly in Ezek.48. ]
You yourself in a prior post, posted a passage from the Old Testament, using forgetfulness as God's judgment on them.
No, I did not-stop your spreading misinformation.
The verses have to do with the dispersal of the 12 tribes among the heathen nations,not them becoming them!
Nowhere in scripture does it ever say that they would forget that they were Hebrews.
That is something you kooks made up to explain how they could become another group of people (British-Americans) and not know they were really Israelites.
If you cease to be identified with a group (kingdom) for 6 centuries, you have forgotten who you were, as God intended. Later God will reunite them, after His purposes have been fulfilled.
No, they did not forget who they were.
They were back in the Land with the tribe of Judah and know that they are of the race of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
What they do not know, with the exception of the Levites, are what particular tribe they belong to.
But that "curse" was not on all 12 tribes. Judah clearly remembers.
The curse as stated in Deut 28:64-65 is for all of the 12 tribes, no exceptions.
And there is no scripture that ever says that anyone would forget who they were and then remember again one day.
Ezekiel has nothing to do with any notion of any "millennium" so named by those who impose their pre concepts on Revelation symbolism. If you think it does, post the specific passage(s) and explain them.
I have the time to teach you the Bible.
Here is a passage from Ezek. which talks about healing water coming from the rebuilt temple.
Ezekiel 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. Ezekiel 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Clearly, something that will only happen in the Millennial reign.
Ezekiel 48:29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord GOD.
Jeremiah 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Jeremiah 3:18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
The earlier verses give the inheritance of the tribes of Israel, which has yet to happen, it will in the Millennial reign, in which these verses take place.
[ No, that is not the simplest explanation, nor is it consistent with prophecy and God's promises, since there is no history of it, nor is it in prophecy that those tribes would forget who they were! ]
I have already shown you the history. And I have shown you where you did not understand the the term in the parts of history you posted. For Hosea to reunite the two Houses, under one head they pick, which has not happened yet, and the consensus being that Israel vanished from history, how can you reach any other conclusion, except from a prior accepted belief system seeking to impose itself on the facts?
And I have shown you that you do not know what you are talking about!
No one says that the 10 tribes are 'gone' only that they are now intermingled with the other 2 tribes and are known as Jews.
Hosea hasn't happened yet, and it will during the Millennial reign of Christ.
As for 'appointed' it simply means, 1. To fix; to settle; to establish; to make fast.(Webster 1825), and that is what the Jews will do, they will recognize Christ is their King (Zech.12:10)
You belong to a sacred cow. I seek to make burgers out of it.
In reality, it is you that is making yourself look like a fool with your unsupportable nonsense.
[ Dumbest thing I every heard. ]
Actually, I'd say basing your doctrine on a consensus contrary to evidence and without clear evidence for it is pretty dumb.
No, my doctrine is based on what the Bible actually says and history supports, not on a fantasy that doesn't exist, history has no record of, and doesn't have any Biblical basis.
[ Well, doesn't he say that the blacks have forgotten their heritage as well? ]
Are you seriously saying the two are related?
If you think that an entire people forgot their heritage, yes, you are essentially saying the same idiotic thing as he is.
[ That view that an entire people have forgotten who they are is for kooks and you British Israelite guys fit right in there with them. ]
You doubt the power of God to follow through with His judgments?
You haven't shown anywhere in scripture where God states that the Hebrew people would forget they were Hebrews.
[ That was because they weren't a kingdom in Italy or Palestine at the time of the Roman Empire. They were under the authority of Rome, not a Kingdom. And a Kingdom doesn't have to be a particular size. A kingdom can be quite small. ]
You missed the point. A kingdom is the people. "Kingdom" is just a name describing a group of people. The people and the kingdom are one. You are trying to impute meaning to an abstract term. Throughout the scriptures God cares about people, and about groups like a "kingdom" only that it is a name meaning the people.
No, once again you are very confused.
A kingdom is 1. The territory or country subject to a king; an undivided territory under the dominion of a king or monarch. (Webster 1825).
That is what is going to reestablished at the Millennial reign.
[ Those were the tribes moved by Assyria. There is no record of those tribes moving anywhere else-now is there?. So stop repeating things that has nothing to do with proving your theory. We know that the 10 tribes were dispersed to the Assyrian empire that is in the records. What is not in the records is that those same tribes went anywhere. That is what you have to show to prove your thesis. Not that they were in Northern Assyria. ]
There are numerous plates of inscriptions available that show people dressed in western Semite garb. There are numerous letters to the Assyrian king that mention Israelites being, called "Gamerians", traced back to "Khumri (Omri).
Oh,stop your double-talk.
What you have to show is that those 10 tribes actually moved somewhere as a unit.
So stop talking about something you know is untrue.
There is no historical record of those tribes after they were deported to Assyria and you know it and your appeal to those Assyrian tablets is nothing but a ruse and a fraud.
These letters were assembled by R.F Harper in 1930 and were translated by Leroy Waterman and published by the University of Michigan. There are missives from Assyrian outposts near when the Median and Israelite tribes were placed, those that had not already moved to other places, after being impressed into tilling the land for tribute to the king, showing clear Israelite priestly clothing, being sighted moving north through what is now Turkey.
Oh, cut it out!
So, Israelite Priests as individuals were moving around-so what!
No one doubts that individuals were moving around, what you have to show is the mass exodus that you claimed to happen that established the nations of Western Europe.
You are as phony as a three dollar bill!
There are translated records of Israelite communities having trouble with Assyrian tax collectors, and prevailing because of numbers. Why have you not been exposed to any of this?
And what would that have to do with a mass exodus or rebellion?
So, once again you cite evidence, with no links or references and that evidence doesn't support your central thesis, that a mass exodus of millions of Israelites occurred and they went into Western Europe and became another group of people.
Stop making up stuff!
[ I don't have to prove anything. You have to prove that they did. Since there is no records of any such movement, it is an historical myth. Your logic is as bad as your historical knowledge. History is about showing facts, which you cannot do, not putting forth conjecture and then asking me to prove them wrong. I can't prove that a UFO didn't move them either. ]
I have presented evidence. You seem to forget we are talking about 6 centuries worth of history between the fall of Assyria and Jewish Palestine. The greatest part of the remaining tribes escaped from the Assyrian rule after the fall. Many went north. Many stayed in the land and were called other names.
Any evidence of this 'escape'-no.
Yes, those that stayed were assimilated into the culture.
Or, they went back to Israel and became known as Jews.
What you have asserted, you have no evidence to support, that millions of Israelites left Assyria and went into Western Europe.
You do not have a single record that states such a thing happened and you know it.
But you will attempt to deceive others that you do with your phony appeal to Assyrian records.
Most had probably forgotten all relationship with Judah by then, except through tales. We are talking about a lot time here.
Yes we are, and there is no record of those tribes remaining intact as tribes and going into Western Europe as such.
So, once again, what you have is mere conjecture based on nothing historical.
The notion of the vast number of Israelites merging with Judah appears false on its face, and appears to be the realm of those who haven't' researched further into the matter. All this makes up a prima facie conclusion.
Prima facie, my, what fancy terms you use to appear like you know what you are talking about!
The fact is that the truth is quite the opposite.
You have stated that many of the people from those 10 tribes were left in their lands, and the Bible supports that view.
Thus, every tribe is represented when the Southern tribes are removed to Babylon.
The Bible shows that there was a great deal of intermingling of the tribes after the deportations by Assyria, so those who were deported are not necessary for all 12 tribes to be preserved, as God promised they would.
So, your own concessions have undercut your theory.
In point of fact, you have no real historical facts to support your views and you know it.
The only way to challenge a prima facie conclusion is with greater facts, which you have not provided.
Actually, they have been provided.
You have not provided any real facts.
Nothing substantial to prove that millions of Israelites went anywhere into Europe as tribes who had lost their memory of who they were.
If the Assyrian plates show Israelite Priests, then it is clear that they hadn't forgotten their traditions.
So when did this mass amnesia occur?
[ Yes, that is true. And those of the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (known today as Jews) would be the heirs to the Covenant. Are there individuals who do not know they have Jewish blood, yes I am sure there are. But an entire group of 10 tribes didn't stop knowing who they were and become a different race of people. ]
You still are using a preconception of a consensus opinion that all were/are Jews. After all these centuries, the world can reasonably be said to be virtually covered with the seed of Abraham, and you say it is all comprehended in about 5 million or so Jews?
Your opinion is based on nothing factual.
Those millions of Jews that are Jews from every tribe are those that God has preserved despite severe persecution.
It will be enough to accomplish His promises.
It is clear you underestimate the power of God.
As for the 'census' theory, it is the factual theory, not one based on myth and conjecture.
The word "Jew" is a mistranslation of the word "loudaious" and is to mean specifically the remnant of Judah, and would never have been applied to the tribes of Israel except the House of Judah, Judah and Benjamin.
Oh, stop that nonsense!
The word 'Jew' has come to mean anyone who was of the heritage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the King of the Jews, which means He is King of all of the tribes, not just those three.
Again, another unfounded assertion with no basis of fact.
Words change with usage,and the word Jew has come to apply to all of the 12 tribes, not just those 3 you cite.
Anna is considered a Jewess, even though she is from the tribe of Asar.
Even if the tribes merged with Judah, Judah would not have allowed them to be called Jews. Jews have been very proud and territorial of their royal patent.
And you know this how?
Since Judah is the leading tribe,(Gen.49:10) I would think they would be proud if every other tribe was known by their name and not that own tribes name.
So, once again an unsupported assertion.
[ Hosea will be fulfilled after the Millennial reign. There is still a Tribulation ahead in which most of mankind is going to be wiped out, including 3/4 of the seed of Abraham. So, your attempts to deal with the population issue in Hosea are based on your own poor theology which doesn't know that God is going to repopulate Israel with the 12 tribes after most are destroyed, as stated very clearly in Matt.24 and Zech.13 ]
We already discussed this. You have provided no link between Hosea and what you call the Millennium. You don't even know how the millennium will come about applied in real world physical existence, the nature of it applied there to or any connection of ancient peoples and prophecies related to that construct from complete symbolism.
I know that it clearly stated in Scripture and those passages confirm it.
You are simply rejecting clear scripture on the subject.
I'll bet you believe in a "rapture" so God's chullins will be able to avoid pain in their bodies, too. And you call mine "bad theology".
Oh, yes, the Rapture is clearly taught in the scriptures.
And yes, you have a very bad theology, which has no scriptural basis or historical evidence to support it.
1st Thessalonians4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1st Thessalonians4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1st Thessalonians4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1st Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1st Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1st Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.