It is arguable since the Southern tribes (the Jews) were exiled and were under Persian control. Those same lands that Persia controled were once Assyrian lands and thus, the Jews and Israelites were brought together again and were come to be known as Jews by the Gentiles. So this little word game that you guys play is just nonsense. Was Judah or was Judah not one of the 12 tribes of Israel? Look, a lighter is composed of a flint, a striker, a wheel, fluid and a case. You don't call the flint the lighter. You don't call the striker the lighter. You don't call the wheel the lighter. You don't call the fluid the lighter. You don't call the case the lighter.
See?
Ah, my friend, it's pretty hard coded in the Bible that the norther kingdom (House of Israel) was captured by the Assyrians, then, after many decades, the House of Judah was captured by the Babylonians. Judah returned to Palestine. Israel did not.
It's pretty clear that after Israel was captured and removed far from Judah, they didn't see each other again. Else the Bible would have been abundantly clear about that, both being God's chosen people. Hosea is clear that that has not yet happened.
I'm afraid I don't make much logical sense out of your statement above. Please clarify.
No, there is 4th choice, they remained in the Assyrian lands and were absorbed into the local population. And that seems far likely.
That is comprehended in "being wiped out". In that case, God broke His promise. The remnants of the Assyrian people are making endless war on Judah. There is nothing is prophecy about this. On the other hand, which nations are supporting Judah?
The is plenty in prophecy about the vast numbers of Israel being reunited with Israel.
All you say is musing and supposition in support of a conclusion you personally want to believe.
Yes, there will be a rebirth of Israel, all 12 tribes as we see today. The Northern tribes are blended with the South and are known as Jews. Many from the North had gone South after the split and many likely also had returned after the Babylonian captivity. All tribes were in Israel when the Lord appeared and were known as Jews.
However, numbers defeat you. How many Jews are in the entire world of 3 billion people today. Do you deny that Jewish writers and leaders have expressed many times the numbers are diminishing? You're thinking this process would take place how far in the future?
Or will God raise the stones up as children of Abraham?
No a moonbat makes up his own argument and then argues it.
As you appear to be doing.
You have overlooked the most likely scenerio, that the 10 Tribes were absorbed into the local populations.
There are not enough of them to fulfill Hosea.
Captive tribes do not migrate anywhere without permission
They do after they defeat their captors.
The Jews had to get permission from Cyrus to do so.
Judah was not Israel. Judah's numbers were small; Israel's large.
There are only three group of people in the world, Jew, Gentile and Church.
How do you know? And, even if there were, how do you know the descendants of the Israelites are not the church of all believers? This would certainly seem more likely, wouldn't you think, since that the Israelite was the balance of God's people?
Israelites are Jews.
Repeating that doesn't make it so, especially when it has not logical or historical support.
We are all under God's judgment now.
Clearly,you are just another confused British-Israelite.
Well, I'm no label. I do see certain valid points people whom you label such make. I see some others with obvious nonsense. Are you capable of discerning jewels from rocks? Every faith, religion and believing group has both.
If a person can't discern validity when mixed with nonsense, I'm not sure I could afford him any credibility. Broad brushes are only good for painting walls.
[It is arguable since the Southern tribes (the Jews) were exiled and were under Persian control. Those same lands that Persia controled were once Assyrian lands and thus, the Jews and Israelites were brought together again and were come to be known as Jews by the Gentiles. So this little word game that you guys play is just nonsense.]
Was Judah or was Judah not one of the 12 tribes of Israel? Look, a lighter is composed of a flint, a striker, a wheel, fluid and a case. You don't call the flint the lighter. You don't call the striker the lighter. You don't call the wheel the lighter. You don't call the fluid the lighter. You don't call the case the lighter.
Well, since they all parts together make up a lighter, can call it a lighter when all parts come together as such.
The word 'Jew' didn't come into play until after the division.
If the word changed with usage, then the word Jew can very well now refer to all 12 tribes, since all 12 were back in the land when the Lord appeared.
Words change with usage and over time.
As it was, Jew didn't refer to only one tribe in the first place!
It refered to at least 3, Judah, Benjamin and Levi.
Over time it came to refer to others as well when they came together in Palestine.
See?
No, do you see?
Ah, my friend, it's pretty hard coded in the Bible that the norther kingdom (House of Israel) was captured by the Assyrians, then, after many decades, the House of Judah was captured by the Babylonians. Judah returned to Palestine. Israel did not.
Well, you are pretty blind to the historical facts.
Members of those same tribes were in the South when the Southern Kingdom fell.
So all members of the 12 tribes were present in the Palestine when Ezra came back.
The 'lost' house of Israel was present in Palestine when Christ was present and Peter refers to them crucifing their Messiah.
So, the fact is, those tribes are in Palestine at the time of Christ and are known as Jews as is Judah and Benajamin.
It's pretty clear that after Israel was captured and removed far from Judah, they didn't see each other again. Else the Bible would have been abundantly clear about that, both being God's chosen people. Hosea is clear that that has not yet happened.
The Two Kingdoms were separated and never reunited as a Kingdom.
But the individual members from each tribe did intermingle and return together as single people in Palestine, not individual tribes.
So what is clear is that you have a very confused notion of both Biblical history and prophecy.
[ I'm afraid I don't make much logical sense out of your statement above. Please clarify. No, there is 4th choice, they remained in the Assyrian lands and were absorbed into the local population. And that seems far likely. ]
That is comprehended in "being wiped out". In that case, God broke His promise. The remnants of the Assyrian people are making endless war on Judah. There is nothing is prophecy about this. On the other hand, which nations are supporting Judah?
No, God would not violated His promise if the people from each tribe were still represented.
And that is the case today, all 12 tribes are in existance as Jews.
We know that because they were called the house of Israel, which is not the house of Judah.
No tribes migrated anywhere except back to Palestine, where they were dispersed again but are be reunited again, the second time (Isa.11:11), and will not be dispersed again (Amos.9:15)
[ The is plenty in prophecy about the vast numbers of Israel being reunited with Israel. ]
All you say is musing and supposition in support of a conclusion you personally want to believe.
No, I am speaking what the Bible actually teaches, not myths and legends that fabricate history.
[ Yes, there will be a rebirth of Israel, all 12 tribes as we see today. The Northern tribes are blended with the South and are known as Jews. Many from the North had gone South after the split and many likely also had returned after the Babylonian captivity. All tribes were in Israel when the Lord appeared and were known as Jews. ]
However, numbers defeat you. How many Jews are in the entire world of 3 billion people today. Do you deny that Jewish writers and leaders have expressed many times the numbers are diminishing? You're thinking this process would take place how far in the future?
Numbers defeat me?
After having 6 million wiped out 60 years ago, they have their own booming nation of millions.
What the holocaust did was galvanize the Jew/Israelite to become more focused in his identity and that is why Jews go to Israel so as not be absorbed into the Gentile world.
They will be there when Christ returns for them (Zech.12:10)
Or will God raise the stones up as children of Abraham?
Doesn't have to, there are millions of Jews in the world and God dosen't have to have pretend Israelites to make up the numbers.
[ No a moonbat makes up his own argument and then argues it. ]
As you appear to be doing.
No, Biblical history shows that all 12 tribes were indeed back in the land at the time of Christ.
So the myth of the Lost Tribes is just that, a myth.
All Jews are Israelites and all Israelites are Jews.
When the Millennial Kingdom begins, then each tribe will be known and get its inheritance, since a Kingdom will come back into existance and not just a nation.
[ You have overlooked the most likely scenerio, that the 10 Tribes were absorbed into the local populations. ]
There are not enough of them to fulfill Hosea.
Ofcourse there are.
All that the tribes started with in Egypt was 75.
The tribe of Benjamin was almost wiped out once.
All God needs to keep his promise is a man and woman from each tribe.
You guys keep thinking you know how God has to operate and then build an entire theology around it.
Who would have predicted that God would come into the world in a manger?
Stop trying to put God into a box.
The facts do not support your theory.
And you are making up a theory to support your own opinions on what God can and cannot do.
[ Captive tribes do not migrate anywhere without permission ]
They do after they defeat their captors.
The 10 nations never defeated anyone.
What pseudo-history are you now imagining?
The Babyonians defeated the Assryians and the Persians defeated them.
Thus, all 12 tribes came under one single empire.
[ The Jews had to get permission from Cyrus to do so. ]
Judah was not Israel. Judah's numbers were small; Israel's large.
You do not know how large Israel's numbers were by the time the Assyrians came in.
The Syrians were 'smiting' them long before they were deported by the Assyrians (2Ki.10) at one time the entire Israelite army was down to 10,000 men and a few chariots (2Ki.13:7).
Not exactly a massive army representing a large population.
Once again, you are dealing with conjecture and not fact.
[ There are only three group of people in the world, Jew, Gentile and Church. ]
How do you know? And, even if there were, how do you know the descendants of the Israelites are not the church of all believers? This would certainly seem more likely, wouldn't you think, since that the Israelite was the balance of God's people?
I know because the Bible tells us so.
Paul doesn't address a 4th group known as 'Israelites'.
All those from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are considered Hebrews, Israelites and Jews as interchangable terms.
Anyone who personally receives Christ as their personal saviour, either Jew or Gentile becomes a Christian and is no longer considered a Jew or Gentile by God, but is considered the Bride of Christ, Christ's very body (Gal.3:28,Eph.5:30).
[ Israelites are Jews. ]
Repeating that doesn't make it so, especially when it has not logical or historical support.
And continuing to deny it doesn't change the fact that all Israelites are Jews and vice a versa.
We are all under God's judgment now.
God's judgement for the Jew hasn't reached it climax, but it will during the Tribulation, at the end of Daniel's 70th week.
[ Clearly,you are just another confused British-Israelite. ]
, Well, I'm no label. I do see certain valid points people whom you label such make. I see some others with obvious nonsense. Are you capable of discerning jewels from rocks? Every faith, religion and believing group has both.
I am capable of seeing that you accept the essential point of their view, that Israelites are not Jews, based on this idiotic notion that the language cannot change over time and usage.
If a person can't discern validity when mixed with nonsense, I'm not sure I could afford him any credibility. Broad brushes are only good for painting walls.
But if one accepts the essentials of a theology, they must be considered as believing that theology.
Not all Communists believe in the same details on how communism must work, but they agree on the essentials on of it.
If you believe that 10 tribes somehow migrated and are now somewhere else, and are not Jews, you are a British-Israelite, no matter what other points you disagee with those who accept that essential point.