Posted on 07/07/2007 7:48:37 PM PDT by tnarg
Mark it down as biblical truth: There is no pre-tribulation rapture.
However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.
The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.
Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.
Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.
The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.
However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!
Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.
All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.
One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.
Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.
One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.
During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?
Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?
Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?
One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.
Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.
In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.
Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.
What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.
The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.
Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.
Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?
Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.
Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.
Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.
At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.
The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.
I can't believe you said that. You don't have to agree but you certainly must know that isn't true. FTD something is very, very obvious to people reading these posts and it is the complete opposite of what you just posted.
Why are you being so contrary? What has been said to make you strike out as you are?
Romans 11:25 For I would not brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
I don't believe I have ever heard anyone on this forum...or thread.... advocate that position. What I and others have been constantly saying is that the Jews (originally) were but one tribe of Israel. They were eventually joined by their brother tribe of Benjamin. This was told of in [I Kings 11:13] Later we are told that most of the tribe of Levi joined them [II Chronicles 11:12-15] and others of the remaining tribes also joined Judah [II Chronicles 11:16-18] because they had set their hearts on seeking The Lord.
The above event takes place during the reign of Rehoboam, son of Solomon....King of Judah (931-913 B.C.) The remaining folks of the northern tribes were still referred to as Israel and did not go into exile for another 200 years (721 B.C.) Some on this thread have said since folks of all the tribes migrated to Judah....to seek the Lord, we should just write off the multitude that stayed. These folks were spoken of in scripture numerous times.....apart from Judah! Should we ignore that also?
I agree with William. I have never understood the vitriol expressed by some when faced with these obvious references to the Ten tribes. I guess we should blame it on the United Nations. In 1948, if they would have insisted that Israel call itself Judah before joining the world community on the banks of the Hudson, perhaps more folks would have understood simple prophecy. But.....then when has the U.N. ever done anything right?
I may not be following all the details and nuances well . . .
I understand that Jew likely comes from Judah.
I understand that the Israeli’s in Israel currently are likely comprised of at least a few folks from every tribe as are those still dispersed.
What else am I not understanding?
I guess I don’t see what the big hassle is all about.
This is where you see mentioned members of a couple of other tribes in Palistine during the time of Jesus.
The term "Jew" refered to the members of the southern kingdom, Judah being dominant and carried the royal name, and is first found in Kings, 6th chapter I believe. 
No trouble believing Scripture.
Certainly things got confused in historical times long ago vis a vis the distinctions between the tribes and the locations of tribal groups, individuals etc.
I’m not sure it’s all that critical about when it happened.
I think the geneology worship aspect may have been one reason God may have had an interest in confusing all that.
HE doesn’t have any trouble knowing who is from what tribe.
The 144,000 with 12,000 from each tribe will still occur.
And, interestingly enough, regarding Hosea 1:10-11 when the two houses come back together, the House of Israel will as the sands of the sea. Now, that means either the distant future when Jewish progeny composes the significant portion of the Earth's population, or the children of Israel already are the sands of the sea, and will maintain that population until Hosea comes to pass.
If the latter, it begs the question, where are they?
I’m a pre-wrath believer myself. I don’t think we’ll go all the way through the tribulation but probably three and a half years of it, but no matter what, I pray I’m prepared.
NO, we will not suffer HIS wrath, but we will suffer the wrath of satan for a while.
Just don’t count on pre-trib. I doubt it will happen then, but just be ready no matteer when it occurs. God will certainly be with the believers through it all, no matter when we leave this earth.
I’m pre-wrath myself. I believe we’ll go through some of the tribulation but NOT God’s wrath (satan’s wrath, yes).
Good points, PM.
Not in Abraham would the Fathers seed be called but in Issac the child of promise. Through the seed of Issac all the nations of the world were blessed. Is this that they were blessed because of the Jews? Yes but more than that because the Savior of the whole world would come from Issac and in his seed, not seeds would the nations be blessed. Without Jews the human race would not have been given the oracles of God, but through faith in the power which raised Jesus from the dead do we become true Jews. Jesus broke down the middle wall of partition between Jew and gentile making one new people, the Body of Christ.
There will be Jews (the Body of Christ) and there will be everyone else.
I don’t think you’ll have much time to enjoy it, Brit (smile). You’ll be ducking earthquakes and hail the size of boulders, among other things (such as boils all over your bodddyyyyy.)
I agree. God will bless those who bless Israel. AND He will curse those who don’t.
[II Kings 16:1-6] In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign. Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father. But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel. And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree. Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him. At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day
This is one of the key scriptures which shows that God separated the Nation of Israel into two Kingdoms. If you notice this is the first time in scripture that the word "Jew" is used.....and they are at war against Israel. To many folks this is a revelation....but to others who understand the significance.....it is just history.
Many times in scripture after this when prophecies are directed to Israel or to Judah.....or to both, if you do not understand this separation you might be attempting to place significant events on the wrong people....at the wrong time....in the wrong location.
I agree with William. I don't understand why people get so upset with this reality. The minute you start talking about this subject and Bible history that goes along with it you immediately become branded as some type of lunatic and are accused of making up your own scripture.
History further tells us that Israel was exiled to Assyria in 721 B.C. [II Kings 17:6] and the scriptures do not record their return. On the other hand, Judah is exiled to Babylon 126 years later. They return after 70 years and it is chronicled in the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah. Secular history records the Northern Kingdom being beyond the Euphrates during the time of Christ....in fact He commands his disciples to go and evangelize these folks [Matthew 10:5-6].
And this is what the questions becomes. Who are these folks and where are they now? No one can seem to say with certainty.....but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ask.
Wherever they are.
Who has God blessed? But first, what form would God's blessing take?
I guess I question WHEN the blood children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will number as the sands of the seashore.
Seems to me it will be either in the Millenium reign of Christ or after that . . . populating endless galaxies etc.
In any case, I’m strongly and fiercely against any hint of
REPLACEMENTARIANISM.
God has NOT replaced blood children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with The Church. He has ADDED The Church INTO THE BRANCH, CHRIST JESUS.
He has NOT forsake the original trunk of blood Israel.
He will NOT forsake them.
His covenant with His Buddy Abraham and His promises to Abraham as thanks in their Friendship
is NOT dependent on Israel’s obedience. Blessings along the way; consigning certain individuals to the pit according to their individual hearts and rebellions—certainly.
But NOT His Covenant—HE IS A COVENANT KEEPER REGARDLESS OF ALL ELSE.
Heaven and earth would pass away before He failed to keep a microscopic part of His promises to Abraham REGARDING ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB’S BLOOD DESCENDANTS.
There’s not a sub-atomic particle worth’s of doubt about that.
The Bible, to me, is SUPER ABUNDANTLY CLEAR on that score.
Any other notions on that issue are mindless blindness.
““The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation”
Ummm, trust me it won’t be a secret.
Amen!
The writings of occultists have planned for a response to that rapture for more than 1000 years. Do they know something that the A-mil gang doesn’t?”
There is always the answer to the question, who will compose the army that Christ leads at Armageddon?!
INDEED.
THX
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.