So far, so good.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; 4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
Here is where I begin to have difficulty. "Neither confounding the persons" is reasonable clear: We are to maintain a distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
But what does it mean by "dividing the substance"? Is substance used here the way that it is used in everyday speech ("tangible physical matter")? Or does it mean something else?
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
No problem here.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
In what way are they "one"?
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. 8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
I think I get this.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
What does it mean, "incomprehensible"? Is it used here as a synonym for "beyond understanding"? If God cannot be understood, why try to explain God?
Indeed, there would seem to be no point in devising creedal statements about God and requiring acceptance of those creeds. To the extent that a creedal statement is understandable, it cannot be complete; if it is complete, it cannot be understandable. Why bother?
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
What is meant by "eternal"? According to my understanding of Mormonism, it means "without beginning or end." But I am told that it has a different meaning in this context.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. 12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. 13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. 14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. 15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; 16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. 17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; 18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
Statements 11 through 18 make the same point: although we speak of three Gods, they are not three but one. Here I have difficulty, because I count three. I cannot seem to wrap my mind around the idea that three are not three, but one.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; 20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
Again, I count three Gods. Why is it forbidden to say so?
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
OK
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
I know what begotten means in the ordinary sense. What does it mean here?
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
What does "proceeding" mean?
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
I am not sure why this clause is necessary. Perhaps I am missing something.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
Well, Jesus considered his Father in Heaven to be greater. Moreover, Jesus came to earth not to do his own will, but the will of the Father. That would seem to imply that one is greater.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. 27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. 28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
But what exactly am I to think when I worship God? How does one imagine three persons who are not three but one?
My impression from speaking to Christians is that the majority imagine God the Father to be a man with long flowing beard and a halo, usually wearing a robe. Jesus they imagine much the way he is depicted in religious art. The Holy Spirit is a spirit, perhaps in the form of a dove. Can they be saved if they think of the Trinity that way?
That is enough for now. (I have to get back to work.) I would appreciate your thoughts and explanations.
You say you have trouble understanding the Trinity -- "I cannot seem to wrap my mind around the idea that three are not three, but one."
From this I take it you also must not understand the meaning of Christ's words -- "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
Yet you say you believe in the Bible.
Christians understand that the doctrine of the Trinity is a revealed truth. If you cannot understand that God the Father is separate but the same as God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, then it hasn't been given to you to know this distinction, and thus you follow some faith other than Christianity.
what does it mean by "dividing the substance"?
What does it mean, "incomprehensible"?
What does it (begotten) mean here?
What does "proceeding" mean?
LOL. Perhaps a dictionary would help.
My impression from speaking to Christians is that the majority imagine God the Father to be a man with long flowing beard and a halo, usually wearing a robe. Jesus they imagine much the way he is depicted in religious art. The Holy Spirit is a spirit, perhaps in the form of a dove.
I don't know any Christians like that. Not to say there aren't some like that, but I haven't met them. If those are the Christians you know, perhaps you might try meeting more people.
Do you believe that some men will rule their own planets when they die? (I can't find the answer to that question in a dictionary, so I thought I'd ask.)
Do you believe there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory")? --
•Telestial - where unbelievers go•Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the
•Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.
What will the celestial heaven (kingdom) be like for a good Mormon? Will he be a god; will he rule over a planet with his wives and spirit children?
Do you believe God was once a man?
If you can manage to believe in the above, but have trouble grasping the Trinity, then I guess it just goes to show the world is filled with all kinds of knowledge. Some Scriptural and some not so much.