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The selection of the Pope from amongst the ranks of the Cardinals is, well, a selection. Discussion and praying. Hardly secret rites.

Yes, but I want to be there and participate in the selection... /illustration

The Masons’ rites go back to the building of King Solomon’s Temple, and the events and ceremonies that ensued. Joseph Smith’s rites developed over the years; he got his information from tablets that he translated into English via the Thurim and Ummim which were then removed.

a) Joseph Smith received the revelation all at once, not over time. Changes have been made when so directed by God.
B) The Urim and Thummim were not removed.

I need to read up a whole lot more on the history (and thank you all for the website references).

No problem, click on my name at the bottom of this post. my Home page here is lousy with links (no puns off of lousy please, Grin)

But the seeing stones deal still bothers me. Moses got his tablets directly from God. JS had to dig his up. Moses had the words written directly and plainly. JS had to translate his - and then had to give them back.

The plates were returned because part of them was still sealed until we are righteous enough to receive them, and that was 2/3 of the plates!. The Urim and Thummim are still here. Did you know that the pentatarch (five books of Moses) were given to him by his father in law? The fun stuff you can learn. Oh, I also recommend the Book of Jasher, it explains a lot about Jacob and Esaw (chapter 27) and has a lot of other interesting stuff in it as well.

I need to keep reading. Thank you for your encouragement.

I for one love to learn, I love to read the books that teach me more about the history of the Gospel in the world, and we live in an age when more and more formerly lost books are appearing, it is a wonderful thing.

On the other hand, I might want to select the next Car of the Year. I don’t belong to JD Power, so it isn’t going to happen for me. You’re not Catholic, so participating in the selection of the Pope isn’t going to happen for you either.

Didn’t Smith have a number of revelations? I read that there were 4 (or more) by the angel Moroni, in which he first revealed the existence of the plates, then he told Smith to wait before getting them, then he told him when to get them, then finally took them back. Question: did the Pearl of Great Price come from the plate?

Then, several other messengers came bearing the keys - priestly powers and consecrations, followed by John the Baptist, then Peter, James and John, and by 1836, Elijah, Moses and Jesus Christ had appeared. That’s quite a procession.

I didn’t mean that the Urim and Thummim were removed - I meant the plates. I tried to google up a picture of the Urim and Thummin and Google was not my friend. Do you have a link to pictures?