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If you want to discuss why we do what we do there, no problem, if you want to discuss what the ceremonies are intended to do, again, no problem, if you want to discuss who says what and why, problem.

thanks for your reply and I do understand the distinction. However..

If "who says what and why" includes oaths or creedal agreements or similar things, then your problem creates a problem for a comparative discussion of religious beliefs and practices.

Whether this is the case in LDS, I don't know. The larger point is I can't know.

This is similar to the problem I encountered recently concerning whether Masonry was a religion. At some point, the cards are hidden.

I do understand that some knowledge is gained in progression and one cannot skip steps. Contemplative Christian practice is similar to this. However, the practices are published and described and readily available. One may not understand them, but they're not hidden.

Again, I appreciate that a LDS wishes to keep some aspects secret. Whether the cost of this is greater than the benefit is perhaps a future decision for the church.

Thanks very much for your reply, and best wishes to you..

thanks for your reply and I do understand the distinction. However..

I hate the "howevers" and "Buts"...

If "who says what and why" includes oaths or creedal agreements or similar things, then your problem creates a problem for a comparative discussion of religious beliefs and practices.

Why? Do you really think you are going to know everything about one let alone two religions? Compare the Doctrine point by point and who cares what the exact wording of a sacred ceremony is if the doctrine is published, who cares.

I will state that there is nothing doctrinally introduced in the temple that is not in the PGP and the D&C

Whether this is the case in LDS, I don't know. The larger point is I can't know.

Sure, you can take my word for it, and you can look on the churches web site, they talk about the meaning of the temple ceremonies in church publications all the time. Go to the web site and look it up. If we were going to lie, we would just do so and print something innocuous and say that is what we do, but we don't and we tell you why and are willing to tell you what it means, that should increase your confidence in us, since we won't take the easy way and just tell you what you want to hear.

This is similar to the problem I encountered recently concerning whether Masonry was a religion. At some point, the cards are hidden.

Well, what do they say their cards are?

I do understand that some knowledge is gained in progression and one cannot skip steps. Contemplative Christian practice is similar to this. However, the practices are published and described and readily available. One may not understand them, but they're not hidden.

Everything about the temple except for the actual Ceremonies are published by the church, meaning, Doctrine taught, everything, what's the problem because really, I don't see it.

Again, I appreciate that a LDS wishes to keep some aspects secret. Whether the cost of this is greater than the benefit is perhaps a future decision for the church.

God wants us to keep it sacred, it's not up to me, he speaks and I obey.

Read the D&C, and the book of Abraham, and you know all the doctrine that is in there, no problem.

Thanks very much for your reply, and best wishes to you..

Thank you for your cordial responses on this forum, it is refreshing to talk to someone who is civil.