The Jewishness of Mary

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary//jewishmary.htm ^ | unknown | By Sr. M. Danielle Peters U-Dayton

[GoLightly]

Wish you had an easier name to remember, cuz I thought of you first when I plunged myself into this discussion & I considered pinging you. Thanx for the info.

Which Saint Xenia did you name yourself after?

[GoLightly]

I messed up in my statement to you. Scroll down to XeniaSt’s post to get the scoop.

[Uri’el-2012]

Which Saint Xenia did you name yourself after?

41 posted on 06/17/2007 7:22:07 PM MDT by GoLightly

I chose the name from the street in Denver where I used to live.

[pray4liberty]

According to Michael Rood, who has spoken extensively on the subject, the geneology of the tribe of Judah is actually Mary's, not Joseph her fiance.

During the translations of the original Hebrew, the line of David was actually Joachim's but somehow the name got mistranslated to Joseph (even though he was also of the tribe of Judah). Hence the confusion.

Michael Rood, who is a Messianic Jew, was able to prove this error on the show A Rood Awakening.

[GoLightly]

Guess I shoulda asked instead of assuming. I googled Saint Xenia, cuz of you & the Russian Orthodox didn’t seem to be the right fit, so I looked further. I found a couple more, though I couldn’t find very much info on them.

[unspun]

Yes, Mary was actually a Jew.

(Mystery solved!   ;-)

[RobbyS]

My Lord said to Abram. Leave thy country behind, thy kinfolk, and thy father's house, and come away into a land I will shew you. Then I will make a great people of thee; I will bless thee, and make your name renowned, a name of benediction; those who bless you I will bless, those who curse you, I will curse, and in thee all the races of the world will find a blessing.

So Abram went out, as the Lord bade him....

There is even a kind of parallel in the taking of the child to the temple for circumcision, and his first shedding of blood in fulfillment of the law.

[Diego1618]

One of them was a Moabite, not sure about the others. Moabites were Semitic, & their line is through Terah, father of Abraham.

I believe you are thinking of Ruth. Ruth was not a descendant of Moab. She was called a Moabitess [Ruth 1:4] because she lived in Moab. Ruth was an Israelite of either the tribe of Gad, Rueben or Mannessah [Number 32:1] and therefore a suitable ancestor (Israelite) of Our Lord [Deuteronomy 23:3].

[Quix]

Sounds like making more mountains out of a few grains of sand, to me.

[GoLightly]

There is even a kind of parallel in the taking of the child to the temple for circumcision, and his first shedding of blood in fulfillment of the law.

You are correct. There is a blood trail to follow, taking us straight to Calgary where the Law was fulfilled. Circumcision became circumcision of the heart, because there was no longer a need for the blood trail.

[GoLightly]

Thanx & yes, I was talking about Ruth. Throws out one of the “foreign” women in the author’s theory. I love getting dragged back out of the wilderness, cuz my quick searches sure aren’t getting the job done.

[Ping-Pong]

According to Michael Rood, who has spoken extensively on the subject, the geneology of the tribe of Judah is actually Mary's, not Joseph her fiance.

I saw that program. To me what was most interesting about that day was Rood pointing out Matthew 1:17.

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations

As listed, there are only thirteen generations from "the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ". Rood's explanation was that Vs.16 -

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, Who is called Christ.

Should have been translated as And Jacob begat Joseph the father of Mary. If Rood is correct that would make 14 generations to Christ and Mary's father and husband would both be named Joseph.

A friend, Diego1618, explained it as "since Mary transferred her inheritance to Joseph through marriage, her generation would be considered separate from his...making 13 generations and Jesus would be fourteen".

Lots to consider.......Ping

[RobbyS]

I know it ws not enough, but only because Scripture tells us so. My point is that the Incarnation itself was part of the sacrificial offering itself. And it relates to the ultimate question: Who is Jesus? Well, as Revelation so emphatically says: The Lamb of God. But he was man born of woman, son of God, the Messiah. Some have argued that until his baptism he was just man, at which time he was adopted by the Father and began his mission. In other words, the Christ of St. Mark. But Luke, following Paul --and I would say also John--has him in this role at the beginning. Arius conceded this, but conceived of Jesus as a kind of super-Angel.

But traditional Christianity has the Annunciation as the defining moment. "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us." Mary's role in this is crucial and she is not simply "a" Jewish maiden but the most suitable Jewish maiden, and the act is accompliushed only with her consent. God does not force our will. He is an ardent lover but no rapist.

[pray4liberty]

Rood's was a fascinating program and made a lot of sense to me.

It is also interesting to note that in the lineage of Christ we have women who were esssentially outcasts: Tamar and Rahab, who were Canaanites, one who slept with her father-in-law (Judah) and the other, a prostitute; Ruth, a Moabite who married a man who was half-Canaanite (Rahab's son Boaz); and Bathsheba, who committed adultery. This is a testament to God's grace.

[Diego1618]

It is also interesting to note that in the lineage of Christ we have women who were essentially outcasts: Tamar and Rahab, who were Canaanites, one who slept with her father-in-law (Judah) and the other, a prostitute; Ruth, a Moabite who married a man who was half-Canaanite (Rahab's son Boaz); and Bathsheba, who committed adultery.

Tamar was not a Canaanite...she was an Israelite. I think you are confusing the fact that Judah had sons by a Canaanite woman, Shua. Shua was the mother of Er, Onan and Shelah [Genesis 38:1-5]. Judah arranged a marriage between his son Er and Tamar. Judah was no longer living away from his brothers [38:1] when he found Tamar for his son. Judah had been the one to suggest selling Joseph [37:26-27] to the traders and his remorse, after lying to his father (Jacob) [37:31-32] may have been what drove him away. Nevertheless ....he did not stay away.

Tamar was subject to the Levirate Law [Deuteronomy 25:5-10][Genesis 38:8] and Tamar is the Hebrew word for "Date Palm". Other Hebrew women in scripture named Tamar are a daughter of David [2 Samuel 13:1] and a daughter of Absalom [2 Samuel 14:27].

Rahab was not the wife of Boaz. I believe you are referring to Rachab [Matthew 1:5] And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse.

If Salmon married Rahab....the Canaanite women, and Boaz was born a year or two later, Boaz would have been about 120 years old when he married Ruth. This would have been unlikely. Salmon married Rachab....an Israelite woman.

And....per my post #48, Ruth lived in Moab. She was an Israelite. When the Israelites were entering the promised land they had to defeat King Sihon of Amorites first: [Deuteronomy 2:32-36] Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz. And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took..From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us:

Previously....this King Sihon had taken most of Moab from the Moabites: [Numbers 21:26] For Heshbon was the city of Sihon the king of the Amorites, who had fought against the former king of Moab, and taken all his land out of his hand, even unto Arnon. If you look at a map of ancient Moab you will see that it existed along the eastern shore of the Dead Sea. From the River Jabbok in the north to the border with Edom at the southern end of the Dead Sea. When the Amorites took the land from the king of Moab they stopped at the river Arnon. The Amorites then controlled the plains of Moab (the fertile area) until the Israelites under Moses took it from them. The Israelites then controlled all of Moab from Arnon in the south to Jabbok in the north. The Israelites then brought in the Tribes of Rueben and Gad because they were cattle raising tribes [Numbers 32:1] Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle. If you check your Bible maps you will see that Gilead and Jazer were indeed on the Plains of Moab.....between the river Arnon and the river Jabbok.

When Naomi and Elimelech and their two sons went to Moab because of the famine in the land [Ruth 1:1] they went to this part of Moab.....the part controlled by their sister tribes of Rueben and Gad. They would have had no reason to go to the heathen part of Moab. In fact God made it pretty clear that He did not want the Israelites hanging out with the Moabites [Deuteronomy 23:3] An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever. This land was still called Moab such as we still call California by its name even though it was known by that same name under Mexican rule.

Ruth lived here....in the Israelite section of the Plains of Moab. She was either a Ruebenite....or a Gadite....but she was definitely an Israelite. I realize that the King James calls her a Moabitish women [Ruth 2:6] and it is a bad translation. Here is why. When the servant of Boaz says she came from the country of Moab it is meant....as the countryside of Moab. Here is the Hebrew word that the servant uses: Strong's #7704. sadeh (saw-deh')or saday {saw-dah'-ee}; from an unused root meaning to spread out; a field (as flatcountry, field, ground, land, soil, X wild. ) i.e. the plains of Moab. If the Holy Spirit meant "The Kingdom of Moab" He would have inspired Samuel to write "Kingdom".

A lot has been made of the fact that Ruth converted (so to speak) for Naomi by saying this....the most famous lines in the Book of Ruth: [Ruth 1:15-17] And she said, Behold, thy sister in law is gone back unto her people, and unto her gods: return thou after thy sister in law. And Ruth said, Entreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me.

The Book of Ruth is probably one of the most mis- translated books of the Bible. The first line in the Book says this: [Ruth 1:1] Now it came to pass in the days when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land. And a certain man of Bethlehemjudah went to sojourn in the country of Moab, he, and his wife, and his two sons. The reason the Holy Spirit inspired Samuel to write "Judges ruled" is so we would know this. The Hebrew word for Judge is the same word Ruth uses in verse 16. The Hebrew word is: Strong's #430. 'elohiym (el-o-heem')angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty. So, when Ruth was telling Naomi she would go with her she was also telling Naomi that "Her Judges would be Ruth's Judges" also. In other words....Ruth would become a Jew like Naomi and leave her tribal family of either Gad or Rueben....whichever it was. In addition, Ruth calls on the name of The Lord in verse 17 and this is the Hebrew word she uses: Strong's #3068. Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God. In [Exodus 6:3] Moses is being told by The Lord what his real name is: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Samuel would not have recorded a heathen Moabite using the Covenant Name. It was given to the Children of Israel.....exclusively. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were not even aware of God's name.

God was pretty serious about keeping this line of ruler ship pure down from Judah. After all... he killed Judah's sons to prevent a contamination of the line [Genesis 38:69-10] and then arranged a pregnancy with a young Israelite, Tamar. So what makes anyone think he would allow further contamination of non Israelite blood through the harlot Rahab? He didn't! The line down from Judah to David was pure [Genesis 49:10]. I know that some folks think that there was Gentile blood in the Kingly line down to our Messiah. It's not Biblical...it might be "touchy feely"...but it's not Biblical.

[Diego1618]

I’m sorry....I meant to ping you to #57.

[Diego1618]

Paragraph 3 should say, of course.....Rahab was not the “Mother” of Boaz.

[Ping-Pong]

Thank you for answering Pray4Liberty. I knew it would be fairly involved and I didn’t have time until today.

I have more time when I’m at work than I do at home (don’t tell my boss - actually he’s my son-in-law and he can’t fire me). My grandchildren from McAllen, Texas came to stay for most of the summer and it has been busy.

You explained it beautifully, as you always do.

..........Ping

PS: My youngest grandson starts his first game in the all stars tonight. I can’t believe 6 years olds begin a game at 8:00 PM.