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OH! I get the difference, silly moi!. You are right. You’re reading substitute like, um, aspartame for sugar - a replacement - not as sweet and possibly bad for you in large doses. Anybody who presents himself or herself as THAT kind of substitute for God is gonna be REAL bad for you (and worse for him/her-self!)

= = =

Quite so.

However, MD, it does NOT seem to matter conclusively by far . . . what the language is THOUGH THE LANGUAGE SEEMS TO EFFECT DEGREE . . . and for some . . . probably a significant degree.

But Proties have more Scripturally kosher language about such leaders

and congregation members STILL emotionally and sometimes intellectually begin to construe anointed or attractive or loving, or seductive, coercive, . . .

leaders

as substitutes for at least Christ or at least Holy Spirit—just as some RC’s do with Mary et al.

HUMAN

problem of significant proportions in ALL RELIGIOUS groups.

Well actually, if one does the word study on Apostle, and looks at how Paul describes himself and his mministry, I don't think "vicar of Christ" IS all that unscriptural. It seems to me to have pretty much the meaning of the Biblical account of the role given to those in the upper room on Easter evening.

THE classic story about la dependency on the clergy is that of an event in a Protestant church (I cannot remember the denom) of a person ahvng a heart attack during a service and though three MD (in the sense of Doc, not of moi) aqre in the congregation and nobody moves until the cleric says,"Uh, get MOVING!"

My more embarrassing story is that I was preaching in Spotsylvania and this guy suddenly goes wite and keels over (and I'm saying, "Woah! I'm good but not THAT good!") and again nobody moves until I suggest that somebody call 911.

So yeah dependency is an issue, as is counter dependency. But look at how we've treated some of our Popes, and the general griping against the clergy You may have missed on a related thread, a RC poster said about that confounded Cardinal Mahoney of LA, "May God rebuke him, we humbly pray," That was an in-joke, a quote from a prayer to Saint Michael, which includes "Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray."

So I don't worry all that much about an excessive dependence on the clergy ....