[Mad Dawg]

Substitute - representative, how big is THAT difference. A vice president is a substitute president. When I was vicar of a parish that meant i was the Bishops representative or substitute there. SO some are appointed to be teachers? That would be "magistri" in Latin. So "Magisterium" is practically Biblical, being the vaguely collective teaching office of the church. The next two paragraphs I think are more about what people project on the RC Church than about what it is. The clergy of the RC Church do not view themselves as taking authority upon themselves. Such authority as they think they have they think is handed down by successors of the Apostles. Someone who considers himself possibly to have a call to be a deacon, priest or bishop has to be approved by various committees of presbyters and bishops (or their vicars) as well as by various church approved teachers.

My impression is that it is some protestant organizations where a person appoints himself or herself as pastor.

So while clearly there is a difference about how a call is discerned and there have been abuses, If you had come to me when I was in the Episcopal Church and told me I took authority on myself I would have laughed with astonishment! It was in every way conferred.

I couldn't agree more about drawing attention to oneself. I always used to say the object of the game was to be a window, not a wall, and the best windows are invisible.

I would say that the oft cited passage from Timothy is all about dispensing Scripture (dispensing, not rationing) and though it refers to the OT, it is still an ordained minister being given instructions from the one who ordained him about how to use the Scripture in preaching the Gospel. I'm not saying my take is conclusive, but I think it's at least a possible reading of the passage.

I do not find bold face any more persuasive than regular type and I disagree with your last sentence, and my disagreement based on, ah, Eph. 4:10-12, I Cor 12, Acts 1:15-end,6:6, and so forth.

[unspun]

MD, you are saying that there is no difference between someone being a representative for God and being a substitute for God.

There must be no authority between God and any human being. No moon to get in the way of the sun, nor any prism to break up the light.

Leaders in the body of Christ, lead others to Christ. Pretty simple. Sure, an earthly organization needs organizers, but the church on earth is not to have selective dispensers, only conduits “rightly dividing” but making all the riches available.

That being the case, to your apt Scriptures, I’d add both the Word and the Spirit of I John 2:19-27 — both the particulars and the principles.

There is only room for one leader for a man’s inner self. Accept no substitutes.

[unspun]

The interpreter of the Word of God is the Holy Sprit and those in Christ are, being in Christ, granted all the authority God gives any man.

...I disagree with your last sentence....

What part of my having directly dispensed fullfillment in Christ, in whom is the fullness and authority of God, God being my only portion -- would you disagree with?

[Quix]

I couldn’t agree more about drawing attention to oneself. I always used to say the object of the game was to be a window, not a wall, and the best windows are invisible.

= = =

I like that.

Mary conceived without sin?

Now the RC’s are bucking for Mary’s parents to also have been perfect from birth?

How long before Adam and Eve are rehabilitated?