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To: stfassisi

Maybe you misunderstand me. I do not say that Christ is not present at communion/Eucharist. I simply believe that the wine and bread are not transformed into the actual physical blood and body of Christ.

I don’t condemn Anthanasius as a heretic. Besides, you quote someone making a claim about what Anthanasius preached. If Anthanasius did argue that the elements become the actual blood and body of Christ, he was mistaken. That would not make him a heretic; just wrong on one issue.


90 posted on 06/03/2007 10:11:28 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: SeaHawkFan
Actually ,ALL the Early Church Fathers believed that Eucharist is the actual Body and Blood of Jesus.
There is not a single exception! Even the one,s who were eventually branded as heretics believed and defended Eucharist

This went virtually unchallenged until the reformation.
Try and find an Early Church Father who denied this? Actual writing,not someones interpretation of them

93 posted on 06/03/2007 10:28:22 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: SeaHawkFan
The problem with the "symbolic" idea is that Christ himself rejects it in the Gospel of John.

Usually, when Christ told a parable, or an allegory, or made some other representational statement, and the disciples didn't understand, he explained - he said, "this is what I meant - the seed is God's word, etc. etc."

But in John 6, he says "verily I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, there is no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I shall raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. Whosoever eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me and I in him." The disciples murmur among themselves, taking it quite literally, Christ does NOT say, "you misunderstand - here is the explanation." He repeats his statement, even more emphatically. And even when many of his disciples turned away and "walked with him no more," he did not correct the statement.

The Greek word translated as "indeed" is alhqhV - "truly, actually, really, I'm telling you the truth."

It's not just St. Athanasius . . . it is ALL the Early Church Fathers, without exception. The idea that the Eucharist is somehow merely a symbolic act or a fellowship meal is quite a modern idea. Even C.S. Lewis believed in the Real Presence, and felt it was necessary for modern Christians as part of the inclusion of both mystery religions and ethical religions in Christianity.

101 posted on 06/03/2007 10:48:26 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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