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To: stfassisi
God's Word states: "ALL have SINNED and come short of the glory of God."

All (includes Mary), unless you're like Bill Clinton and apply his philosophy to "all" as he did with "is." Jesus Christ is the only One who ever walked the face of this earth as a man and did not sin. God's Word refers to Him as One Who "knew no sin." John also said, "if anyone says he (or she), says they are without sin, they are liars and the truth is not in them." Mary could not and never said, "I am without sin." No where in the Bible suggest such even remotely that Mary was "without sin." If I read the OT Scriptures correctly, the Spirit of God came upon the "prophets of old" quite frequently and they likewise were not without sin. When a man or woman today accepts Christ, the Spirit of God takes us residence within us, and we are not without sin. Mary was indeed blessed among all women, but whe was not "without sin."

152 posted on 06/05/2007 4:35:07 PM PDT by evangmlw
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To: evangmlw
How are you going to account for the fact that Scriptures says God will not join himself with anything defiled as I pointed out to you in my post.

Why would you think Jesus would enter the world through a sinful creature?
You are misinterpreting your Bible when it accounts for the birth of Jesus

You said...
“If I read the OT Scriptures correctly, the Spirit of God came upon the “prophets of old” quite frequently and they likewise were not without sin.”

Dear Friend ,you are overlooking a MAJOR difference
He did NOT take flesh from those “prophets of old”to enter the world.

He took flesh from Mary,therefore she HAD to be sinless.
Unless you are going to say that Jesus was not worthy to entering the world through perfection? If I were you I would refrain from answering .

History of the Saints and early Church Fathers tell you that Mary was Sinless.

Here are a few writings
“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

*”O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).

“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.” Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).

“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).

“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).

“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.” Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).

*Note that Saint Anthanasius was first person to identify the same 27 books of the New Testament that are in use today..

He knew the Bible better then you and the Baptists, as did all the Saints,.
They all interpreted Scripture as Mary being sinless.

You trust them to be Guided by the Holy spirit to give you Bible canon and their witness tells you the Bible is the word of God.

If you deny this you are going to have to question whether bible canon was guided by the Holy Spirit.

I wish you a Blessed Evening

153 posted on 06/05/2007 5:17:33 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: evangmlw
All (includes Mary), unless you're like Bill Clinton and apply his philosophy to "all" as he did with "is."
Jesus Christ is the only One who ever walked the face of this earth as a man and did not sin.

look like your second sentence shows a certain lintonesque quality. All does not mean all.

166 posted on 08/05/2007 7:32:58 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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