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1 posted on 05/29/2007 9:15:38 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy


2 posted on 05/29/2007 9:19:54 AM PDT by MrEdd (L. Ron Gore creator of "Fry-n-tology" the global warming religion.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Lack of bollocks.

3 posted on 05/29/2007 9:29:01 AM PDT by jdm
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To: Alex Murphy
Why is the Vatican Backing Climate Change Theory?

Archbishop Migliore stated, "The scientific evidence for global warming and for humanity's role in the increase of greenhouse gasses becomes ever more unimpeachable . . . and such activity has a profound relevance, not just for the environment, but in ethical, economic, social and political terms as well."

Could it be that brother Migliore
does know or trust in Elohim,
the creator of the universe?
b'shem Yah'shua
5 posted on 05/29/2007 11:00:28 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Alex Murphy

“Why is the Vatican Backing Climate Change Theory?”

I would highly doubt if that’s what he’s doing - I don’t think he’s that dumb.

He must make some sort of statement (s, however, because he knows that proper stewardship of our environment is one of the _ individual _Christian’s responsibilities toward God - bit in THIS order:

“..the pope considers an authentic...theology: one that puts [1] God and the life of the spirit first, [2] _direct_ charitable care of others second, [3] and _only then_ draws consequences for a just social order.”

At a Vatican conference on climate change, Pope Benedict urged bishops, scientists and politicians - including UK environment secretary David Miliband - to “respect creation” while “focusing on the needs of sustainable development”. The Pope’s message ... that “disregard for the environment always harms human coexistence, and vice versa”.

.. About four years ago the progressives began ..redefining environmentalism as “creation care”, ....

Although the [ ] World Council of Churches in Geneva has had a department to investigate climate change since 1990, churches have come late to the debate. “The [environment and religion] is a no-brainer, but we are all only now realising it”, said Claire Foster, environmental policy adviser to the Church of England.

[[[ World Council of Churches is the largest coalition of leftist religious denominations in the United States and has a long record of financial support for Communist regimes: ]]]]

[[[ Pope Benedict, on the other hand, denounces Marxist/Communist influence warning where it leads: ]]]

Many faiths also realise their potential to influence politicians and financiers. A survey by US bank Citigroup found that the 11 major faiths now embrace 85% of the world’s population and are the world’s third largest group of financial investors. In the US the United methodist church pension fund alone is worth $12bn-$15bn (£6bn-£7bn). Total investment of US churches is nearly $70bn. Switching to ethical investments would be hugely significant.

One Catholic priest impatient for change is Seán McDonagh, a Columban missionary and author of books on ecology and religion. “The Catholic church’s social teaching on human rights and justice has been good, but there has been little concern about the impact on the planet. The church has been caught up on its emphasis on development and on resisting population control, but if we are pro-life we should be banging the drum now about climate change.” ..”

Source: John Vidal and Tom Kington in Rome Friday April 27, 2007 The Guardian,,2066711,00.html


by Sonja Boehmer-Christensen

1. The main diplomatic aim of the UK was clear from [Secretary of State for environment] David Miliband’s performance - to protect and encourage the struggling carbon market. His message was: Act speedily now before it is too late and do not allow a ‘gap’ to appear in emission trading.

He was not at all happy about my question what the UK hoped to gain from the ‘combat against GW’.

2. Miliband finished his speech with an observation from World Wildlife Fund : “They have calculated that if everyone in the world were to consume natural resources and generate carbon dioxide at the rate we do in the UK, we’d need three planets to support (us). We are depleting our natural resources at a faster rate then we are replenishing them”. The man must be ignorant, environmentally speaking. Even my third-year students laughed at the replenishing and had no idea how WWF reached that number. (But many church people liked the idea of reducing (over)consumption - the other side of serving the poor?)

3. The Vatican’s objective was less clear. There is clearly a policy and doctrinal debate going on inside the Vatican, with the Pope coming under pressure to join ‘Al Gore’ and the World Council of Churches to pronounce an encyclical on combating global warming. He is resisting and, according to one insider, unlikely to give in, though a general statement on our responsibility to look after God’s creation and use nature rationally is likely. The last Pope wasn’t much interested in greenery either, but in 1990 coined the term ecological conversion, which was mentioned by several speakers.

4. Raul Estrada-Oyuela (chief UNFCC/Kyoto Protocol negotiator) had an interesting position that seriously challenged that of the UK. After pointing out that Kyoto was about emission reduction, not the creation of a market for a new commodity (carbon), he stated that “ the main purpose, mitigation, cannot be adjusted to serve the interests of merchants and dealers. The overarching guidance is preserving the creation and (that) may be translated in this case as climate environmental integrity” (.....Whatever that is..). There was no rush to complete complex negotiations about the future of Kyoto.

He also said “emission trading is a fiasco in Europe...” and suggested new Protocols to the climate convention not based on national but sectoral targets as a way forward. There will be no giving in by USA and Australia, or the industrialising countries (who see targets as brakes on development) to EU/UK demands.

He would rather have a gap in commitments (after 2012 when current commitment period of Kyoto ends) than satisfy the ‘carbon market’, which is of course just what the UK and World Bank want to protect, see their current campaign, e.g. at UN Security Council, G8, even involving the Royal Society (not to mention the BBC),. the whole establishment is ‘on message.’ In my view they - the finished Blair Government, but no change in sight with Al Gore advising Brown - are overdoing it to their own detriment. (Did you know that Al Gore believes in Creationism, or at least is reported to have said so when meeting some religious groups last week.) Raul spoke late on the second day , however.

5. But first came the scientists, with Prof. A. Zichichi of CERN /World Federation of Scientists, later supported by other Italian scientists and Fred Singer) who completely rubbished the climate models and in effect removed the status of science from meteorology. Zichichi was followed by Rahmstorf (Berlin) who gave the ‘consensus’ IPCC line. He disappeared soon afterwards and did not engage with his critics, just handed out a ‘fact’ sheet with the hockeystick etc.

The World Council of Churches was visibly appalled by this science challenge, as were the Anglican bishops (Liverpool). “We were not consulted about the people invited here and shall protest,” one of them confided to me. Another later challenged my academic credentials. Yet the US Evangelicals were represented by a serious scientifically literate ‘sceptic’ (Calvin Beisner).

The green lobby inside the Churches, seemingly strongest in Africa (’you made the mess, now pay for it’), Germany (‘catastrophe is nigh, but we may yet save creation..’) and the UK (‘we must aid Africa, not to save the planet would be sinful’), was very disturbed to have to listen to so many science ‘deniers’. Others seemed worried about the implications of all this environmentalism for Man’s relationship with God, something I have no views on or knowledge of, other than sensing that the ‘deification’ of Nature was a doctrinal worry.
But we had to listen to the AGW believers in turn and at length; there were some very good sermons pulling at all heart strings.

Australian bishop Christopher Toohey was the peace-maker and spoke last...’we must help the poor whether the climate is changing or not.’ So I even discussed the question of immortality, but this was over breakfast.

Indeed, all positions were justified with reference to the poor. Is this new in world/church politics?

My arrogant impression was that too many of the church representatives present while of ‘good will’ and obviously lovely, caring people, were illiterate scientifically and in development economics.

I should mention that I was allowed three ‘interventions,’ one quite long, to explain my political analysis of why the EU was so keen on climate alarmism.

Eager to find substitutes for carbon fuels, which it is running out of or has ‘closed’ (the coal mines), it was using the climate threat, suitably exaggerated, to ensure that the burden of this conversion to a low-carbon economy was spread globally to avoid ‘competitiveness’ problems and also, to encourage private money flow to the ‘South’..but with what effect and expectations?

Energy-intensive industries are already moving to China, the main beneficiary by far from the Kyoto-CDM scheme.

bttt for More:

6 posted on 05/29/2007 6:48:47 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (DemocRATS: demagogues that mine the stupidity of their constituencies.)
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To: Alex Murphy; wideawake
Archbishop Migliore stated, "The scientific evidence for global warming and for humanity's role in the increase of greenhouse gasses becomes ever more unimpeachable . . .

And evolution is "more than a hypothesis."

7 posted on 05/29/2007 7:04:17 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ("Qumah HaShem, veyafutzu 'oyeveykha, veyanusu mesan'eykha mippaneykha!")
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To: Alex Murphy

The Vatican’s overall record on science is wanting.

8 posted on 05/30/2007 8:42:51 AM PDT by onedoug
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