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To: P-Marlowe
No, your answers were classic Pelagianism. Even Arminians would refute them.

Another typical Calvinistic refrain --- and you think that classic Calvinism is biblical???

Already today we have discovered that the Calvinistic claim that "believing" is a "work" is unbiblical. How many more of its invented doctrines are as well?

Show me from scriptures where faith comes to anyone before or apart from the word of God.

Show me from the scriptures where one is regenerated [born again] before or apart from the gospel, aka the word of God?

I won't hold my breath ---

185 posted on 05/28/2007 5:48:47 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip
Another typical Calvinistic refrain...

Interesting comment in light of the fact that I am not a Calvinist. But then to a Pelagian, even an Arminian is a Calvinist.

--- and you think that classic Calvinism is biblical???

Everything that Calvinism asserts is biblical. There is a verse for every point they make. I think some Calvinists take it too far, but the general theological position of Calvinists is biblical.

Show me from scriptures where faith comes to anyone before or apart from the word of God.

The Centurion. (Matthew Chapter 8) John the Baptist. (Faith exhibited in the Womb).

Show me from the scriptures where one is regenerated [born again] before or apart from the gospel, aka the word of God?

I don't make that argument. The Calvinists have all the verses. I am non-committal in regard to the point at which the new birth takes place. Regardless, you cannot be saved unless God first changes your heart. If you have a cold dead heart, you will not respond to the gospel. If you responded to the Gospel it is because God made it possible. (The Calvinist would argue that God not only made it possible, but made it impossible to reject the gospel). I'm not sure I'd go that far. God may make it possible for all, but it is clearly "irresistible" to those whom he has chosen.

Whatever it is, the fact remains that if you embraced the gospel, then the glory goes to God alone.

I won't hold my breath ---

You don't need to.

187 posted on 05/28/2007 7:08:07 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Uncle Chip
Show me from the scriptures where one is regenerated [born again] before or apart from the gospel

John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb for joy at the sound of Mary's voice. No gospel preached there.

What is NORMAL is not necesarily NORMATIVE

189 posted on 05/28/2007 7:33:29 PM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
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To: Uncle Chip
......the Calvinistic claim that "believing" is a "work" is unbiblical.

I defy you to show me anywhere in classical Calvinistic soteriology where believing is counted a "work." You got that idea somewhere else. It is most definitely NOT Calvinism

190 posted on 05/28/2007 7:35:57 PM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
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