Posted on 05/21/2007 1:31:42 AM PDT by bruinbirdman
Everyone I know seems to be reading the Bible these days in search of answers. That is usually a good thing but not always. In fact, too many of the Biblical discussions I get into with friends and family members relate to the “End Times” and whether they are upon us. That is a shame because reading the Bible can enrich one’s daily life provided one is not obsessed with using it as a device to decipher the future.
Because of one relatively simple error in dating one book of the New Testament, author Tim LaHaye has misled tens of millions of people into thinking that a great time of tribulation is near. He has Christians everywhere looking for signs of an emerging anti-Christ and, ultimately, in a cowardly fashion, looking forward to a time when Christ will rapture his church away from earthly troubles.
If Christians would simply study the New Testament themselves – instead of relying upon 21st Century “prophets” writing fictional books for 21st Century profits – they would arrive at a few very simple conclusions:
1. The Revelation to John was written around 65 AD, not 95 AD.
2. The anti-Christ was Nero, not some world figure yet to emerge in the 21st Century.
3. The tribulation occurred in the First Century around the time of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD.
4. The “rapture” never happened and it never will.
5. The words of Jesus in Matthew 24 plainly reveal that most of the discourse in The Revelation to John is based on events in the First Century.
Once an individual realizes he is stuck here on earth and will not be raptured away from all of his troubles, he can begin to read the Bible the way it was intended to be read. I have a word of advice for those who have never really thought about reading the Bible as an end in itself rather than as a means to some goal such as predicting the future. My advice is actually borrowed from a friend who received a moving card from his wife just a few months ago.
After receiving the cherished card from his wife, my friend would sneak into their bedroom late at night (she always fell asleep while he was finishing his last TV show). After giving her a kiss while she was sleeping, he would take the card off his dresser and go into the spare room to read it by the light of a small lamp.
There were certain lines he would read three and four times over: “It is a privilege to know you, to share myself with you,” “I never knew such a person could exist until I met you,” and “You lift my spirits to places where my troubles seem so much farther away.”
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It was wonderful to hear that a dear friend had found his “soul mate” and all of the joy that comes from lifelong companionship. But, at the same time, I could not listen to his story without thinking of all the other friends I know who have suffered through a painful divorce or, in some cases, never even met someone with whom they share a special bond of love. And some are growing older and lonelier by the day.
But, recently, I received a new insight into what seems to be an unfair distribution of soul mates among God’s children. It came as I was listening to a pastor named “Mike” whose last name I do not even know. His message was broadcast from Port City Church in Wilmington to a theater rented out to handle the overflow of his growing congregation.
He urged each member of his church to read the First Letter of John during the coming week. He also urged them to read it as if it were written just for them by someone who is madly in love with them.
I was so intrigued by this take on the proper approach to reading the New Testament epistle that I immediately bought a copy of the English Standard Version – a version I’ve been meaning to read for quite some time. Later that night I opened it and started reading by the light of a small lamp:
“…Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling… I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake … Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure… We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him…”
After reading those lines, it occurred to me that I had only been skimming through this great epistle on my last several runs through the New Testament. My zeal to get to The Revelation to John has been such that I have hardly noticed those great words in the years following the attacks of 911.
We all need to learn to read the Word as if it were written for us personally by someone who could not love us more. When we cannot get enough of it in the here and now, the future seems so much less important. And a little uncertainty is hardly the end of the world.
Thanks
Your arguement is much like the Jehovah Witnesses claim that the word "trinity" does not appear in the Bible. You need to bone up on your bible tools before making this kind of arguement.
For the record, the word "rapture" comes from the Latin word "rapturo," which in turn was a translation of the Greek verb "caught up" found in 1 Thes 4:17.
While I won't go so far as to say the "reigning sentiment" was chiliast, it is true that MANY of the fervent church fathers believed in a literal earthly millenium. They also were also universally paedobaptist as well. From this set of facts I derive two things:
1) People often "proof text" the early fathers, simply combing their writings for support, not understanding,
2) People find support that isn't there. The early chiliasts were NOT the dispensational types and never taught a secret coming which will leave Israel to be converted and then "fulfill" the covenant stipulations and then receive the blessings. Such a view would have been laughed at. The premils were more like George Eldon Ladd, a premil who denied emphatically the doctrine of a "secret rapture" or a two fold coming of Jesus. Nonsense about "coming in the clouds" vs touching down on Mt Olives as "evidence" of two different comings is fanciful monkey business unworthy of serious discussion. I came down through the clouds in my last airplane decent and then touched down in Raleigh NC, and no one says that was two different trips. It is amazing the monkeyshines people will try in order to protect their favorite theories!
I thought the dispensational mantra was "literal whenever possible"
Funny, I always thought that was evidence for the normally held view for 1800 years that Christ would come ONCE, and that in his coming would gather all his people to himself.
Where in this passage do you find that view refuted?
“But as it is written, ‘Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him’” (1 Cor 2:9).
:)
Such a view has NO biblical support.
However, the idea that the people of God will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air as he comes to judge the world is not questioned by any bible believing non-dispensationalist.
.....You CHANGED the quote.
I deliberately inserted a word to make the issue clear.
That’s a big time NO-NO.
Actually, all I did by doing so was define the issue at debate here. Check what I said and you can see I am not being dishonest, just clarifying
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man” (Luke 21:36).
This verse seems to indicate that escape isnt just a hopeful pipe dream as some suggest, but an actual an option.
Not to mention these:
“And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come” (1 Thessalonians 1:10).
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth “ (Revelation 3:10).
http://www.historicist.com/articles2/rapture.htm
I do not pretend to be eloquent on these thing but the above reference is an excellent article agreeing with the original posted article which quotes my former pastor as well. I thought I was on a thread to discuss the views in the posted article not a thread hijacked by scofield dispensationalists.
Outside of dispensation theology (which btw teaches salvation by grace thru faith in all ages/dispensations), most if not all other Christian theologies consider the church to be “spiritual Isreal”.
All very well and good, but if God is willing to change his mind regarding the promises he made to the nation of Isreal (because of their sin), then what is to stop God from changing his mind regarding the promises made to the church (because of the church’s sin?).
No one, not Isreal, the not the Church, no one, no man deserves God’s grace. It is a gift. If God cannot be trusted to give us His word and to keep His Word then there is no hope.
R.C. Sproul et el has too much invested in referring to the church as “spititual Isreal” so he has to reject the pre-mil view, which is a real shame.
Tom
“It may be because it is so early in the morning...but this doesn’t make sense to me...could you rephrase it?”
On the other hand, it might just be saying that
[ a reading of the 2Thess passage and the Apocalypse that did not exist before the early 19th century Plymouth Brethren intererpretations popularized by John Darby caught on in Britain and the USA ]
is not true.
See the links referenced in my original post for details of the origins of the novel “dispensational” reading of these Scripture passages. Too many shallow and careless readers imagine that their own reading is the only possible way to read the text. They end up making their interpretation canonical, and thus repeat the misteps of the pharisees, who made their traditions into divine writ.
“No one denies a “rapture.” I inserted the word “secret” because it is a hallmark of the unbiblical teaching “
I don’t argue for a “secret” rapture.
*****
“the geopolitical nation of Jews residing in Palestine... Such a view has NO biblical support.”
Clearly there is biblical support for a, “geopolitical nation of Jews residing in Palestine” around the time of Christ’s return.
Ive only began to study the wedding and bride, and how the Jewish wedding is tied to the rapture.
Fascinating stuff. I couldnt find an article I wanted to show you.
A couple of good unrelated quotes from Jack Kinsella:
“The Tribulation serves two main purposes; the first is the judgment of God on a Christ-rejecting world. The second is the national redemption of Israel. By definition, Church-Age believers have NOT rejected Christ, and need no further redemption.
If the Church goes through the Tribulation, then Jesus’ promise of a Comforter until He comes needs rewriting to say, “I will send you a Comforter Who will stay with you until you need Him most, and then you are on your own for seven years.”
Wow. He’s never really read Revelation before... But when some guy named “Mike” helps him interpret it, he goes against 2 millenia of Christian interpretation.
Yeah, I can really trust this writer to help me understand the NT.
In addition, and simply put,
At the rapture, the belivers (dead in Christ) meet Jesus in the air. At the second coming, Jesus returns to the earth to judge and usher in the Kingdom centered in Jerusalem. Two different events.
While I believe that the Church Saints are with Christ during the 7 yr. tribulation, I think the comforter Jesus promised is the Holy Spirit which we have had since Acts Ch 2.
I thought I was on a thread to discuss the views in the posted article not a thread hijacked by scofield dispensationalists.
I was responding to a comment/challenge YOU made. Don't complain about hijacking if you are particpating in the hijacking.
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