Posted on 05/21/2007 1:31:42 AM PDT by bruinbirdman
God Bless you too. I hope to meet you in heaven one way or the other.
Thats the main thing.
Anyone who has accepted Jesus as Savior will be there.
When and how will probably never be agreed on in this life.
I believe in the rapture because imo The Bible teaches that.
Thanks for posting this, I was about to ask if there’s any firm proof to show that Revelation was written in AD 65 and not 96. It appears as if the reverse is true.
“Thats the main thing.”
I agree.
I have had a number of people break fellowship with me over this issue of eschatology. I personally do not believe that it is central to the faith but some people do.
God bless.
Um, yeah, Nero was an anti-Christ. But as scripture tells us, there will be many anti-Christs. (And there have been several already.)
“Then bust out your strongs and find me rapture in the bible!”
# 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changedin a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
1 Thess 4:15-17: "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
One can argue about the timing, but no one can deny the rapture without denying scripture.
1. The Rapture is yet to come. 2. We are to be ready by following Gods will and living each day as if it were our last.
Bingo! What I don't understand is how those who believe this happened in 70A.D. can justify their beliefs. If Revelation already happened what happened to the thousand year reign of Christ on the Earth and why we aren't living in paradise today?
"You just have to be objective when studying the text, which does not come easily to most good Christian folks ..."
I feel like I am fairly objective in this.
Please look at the following.
1 Thess.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
and
2 Thess
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
First passage clearly describes a rapture.
Second passage makes it clear that before the Lord's return there will be a general rebellion or apostasy - then the "man of sin" is revealed. This is the anti-christ, who the Lord will destroy at his return.
To believe Nero in the Antichrist you would have to believe Jesus returned in the first century.
Nero may have been an "antichrist" - of which there are many according to John, but he could not have been the Antichrist proper.
I do not see any “rapture” there. and if you notice it is the ones that remain that meet the Lord not the ones taking the imaginary flying rescue ride. There are at least two camps on this .
http://www.historicist.com/articles2/rapture.htm
“I do not see any rapture there.”
Maybe because you don’t want to??? Because it is clearly there...
“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air”
“...caught up together with them in the clouds”
You done stepped in it!
“...Cerinthus embraced chiliasm, a form of apocalyptic vision that depicted the millennium as a physical and material period.”
Papais, one of the earliest church fathers we have anything from, clearly believed in a physical, earthly kingdom.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html
Later church fathers made the mistake of confusing the Church with the Millenial reign of Christ.
Or do you believe the Church father’s were infallable?
......This is a denial of the Scripture.
Nah, just a refutation of a 19th century heretic (Edward Irving) and one of his followers named John Darby. There is nothing in scripture that gives any credence to the doctrine of a "secret" coming of Jesus predating his return to judge the world. This is why there is [ahem] NO mention of this doctrine by ANY theologian prior to 1830 (and yes, I have read Grant Jeffrey's extremely dishonest attempt to refute this). It was simply unheard of BECAUSE...... the scriptures simply don't teach it. If you aren't looking for it because of other factors, you would NEVER surmise this doctrine from the clear teaching of the bible.
“No less a man than Martin Luthor himself put Revelations (and Hebrews I believe) in an appendix!”
That would be a strike against him in my book.
noone is so blind as he who refuses to see.
“noone is so blind as he who refuses to see.”
Now we’re trading Chinese proverbs?
Where’s your argument?
The secret rapture never happened and it never will.
You CHANGED the quote.
That’s a big time NO-NO.
Read the rest of the thread and get informed.
Why are you asking me this??
I was responding to Matchett-PI’s post to you. I included you becasue I thought you might find it interesting.
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