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To: Claud
Where do you see anything that indicates that it is a temporary condition...

Firstly, it is a given because Scripture is adamant that believers are to obey God above men, and that no man has absolute authority on earth as the popes of Rome tried to claim for themselves.

and that the bishop of Rome. And if you're right, that it only holds as long as the bishop of Rome is orthodox, then you are by that very fact saying that *SOMEONE* has to be judging the bishop of Rome heretical.

There were councils as well as bishops and others who judged Roman popes, rightly, as heretics.

You entirely miss the point of this passage, which is that the *Bishop of Rome* judges what is heretical....

Wrong. Never was and never will be.

not as long as he just happens to be orthodox, but because the apostolic tradition of Peter and Paul has been preserved there.

The Apostolic Tradition was recorded in the Scriptures, and was and is passed on to every genuine believer, so said 98% of the Church Fathers.

176 posted on 05/17/2007 3:52:58 PM PDT by Risky-Riskerdo
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To: Risky-Riskerdo
Firstly, it is a given because Scripture is adamant that believers are to obey God above men, and that no man has absolute authority on earth as the popes of Rome tried to claim for themselves.

"What you bound on earth shall be bound in heaven. And what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven"...."Whoever hears you, hears me."..."If he will not listen to the Church, let him be to you as a heathen or tax collector."

That's a grant of personal authority. Power to bind with legislation, power to teach authoritatively, and power to excommunicate. Not absolute authority no, but an authority insofar as the Church is the ultimate judge on certain key matters of religion.

The Apostolic Tradition was recorded in the Scriptures, and was and is passed on to every genuine believer, so said 98% of the Church Fathers.

98% eh? I'd be surprised if it was 2%. Let's see some quotes.

308 posted on 05/18/2007 8:38:33 AM PDT by Claud
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