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To: Kolokotronis; crazykatz; JosephW; lambo; MoJoWork_n; newberger; The_Reader_David; jb6; ...
Orthodox etc. ping. You may find this very interesting reading. Anselm’s work is distinctly “non-Orthodox” though from an Orthodox pov, not heresy. Anselm’s atonement theory explains much about the different views of theosis/salvation we see between the East and the West and which are very graphically demonstrated by the way we all experience the Triodion

I couldn't agree more. It is a legalistic approach to atonement (although that term wasn't invented yet in the 11th century). For the proper Orthodox-Catholic dialogue his concepts and mindset are just as critical as understanding our hesychastic foundations.

Anselm is, to put is simply, the epitome of Latin legalism, a prism through which they view theological issues. We, of course, do not teach his doctrine of atonement, but the one that was taught in the first millennium by the whole Church, known as the ransom doctrine.

For those unfamiliar with it, the doctrine says that Satan demanded Christ in exchange for freeing humans from the bondage of death. When Christ died, death reached for Him and discovered it was God over whom it had no power, whereby it was rendered powerless. Thus this doctrine is one of a divine "sting" and is beautifully summarized in St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Homily (see Kolokotronis' tag line).

9 posted on 05/08/2007 9:28:06 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
the ransom doctrine. For those unfamiliar with it, the doctrine says that Satan demanded Christ in exchange for freeing humans from the bondage of death. When Christ died, death reached for Him and discovered it was God over whom it had no power, whereby it was rendered powerless. Thus this doctrine is one of a divine "sting"

I find it amusing that on this doctrine, the Eastern Church is all to happy to fall in behind St. Augustine:

"The Redeemer came and the deceiver was overcome. What did our Redeemer do to our Captor? In payment for us He set the trap, His Cross, with His blood for bait. He [Satan] could indeed shed that blood; but he deserved not to drink it. By shedding the blood of One who was not his debtor, he was forced to release his debtors" (Sermons 130.2).

While the West follows St. Gregory of Nazianz in rejecting an overliteral ransom from the devil theory:

"Now we are to examine another fact and dogma, neglected by most people, but in my judgment well worth enquiring into. To Whom was that Blood offered that was shed for us, and why was It shed? I mean the precious and famous Blood of our God and High priest and Sacrifice. We were detained in bondage by the Evil One, sold under sin, and receiving pleasure in exchange for wickedness. Now, since a ransom belongs only to him who holds in bondage, I ask to whom was this offered, and for what cause? If to the Evil One, fie upon the outrage! If the robber receives ransom, not only from God, but a ransom which consists of God Himself, and has such an illustrious payment for his tyranny, a payment for whose sake it would have been right for him to have left us alone altogether. But if to the Father, I ask first, how? For it was not by Him that we were being oppressed; and next, On what principle did the Blood of His Only begotten Son delight the Father, Who would not receive even Isaac, when he was being offered by his Father, but changed the sacrifice, putting a ram in the place of the human victim? Is it not evident that the Father accepts Him, but neither asked for Him nor demanded Him; but on account of the Incarnation, and because Humanity must be sanctified by the Humanity of God, that He might deliver us Himself, and overcome the tyrant, and draw us to Himself by the mediation of His Son, Who also arranged this to the honour of the Father, Whom it is manifest that He obeys in all things?" (Oration 45.22)

16 posted on 05/09/2007 8:25:21 AM PDT by Andrew Byler
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To: kosta50
We, of course, do not teach his doctrine of atonement, but the one that was taught in the first millennium by the whole Church, known as the ransom doctrine. For those unfamiliar with it, the doctrine says that Satan demanded Christ in exchange for freeing humans from the bondage of death. When Christ died, death reached for Him and discovered it was God over whom it had no power, whereby it was rendered powerless. Thus this doctrine is one of a divine "sting" and is beautifully summarized in St. John Chrysostom's Paschal Homily (see Kolokotronis' tag line).

Ping to read the Paschal Homily

32 posted on 05/10/2007 8:59:51 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (FR Member Alex Murphy: Declared Anathema By The Council Of Trent)
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