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Posted on 05/02/2007 3:40:14 PM PDT by Frank Sheed
Its publication could come "any day now," but until it hits print, Pope Benedict's repeatedly-delayed motu proprio on the celebration of the Tridentine Mass is much like the famous diary of the late Italian Cardinal Giuseppe Siri of Genoa: all that's known is that it exists... which makes any reportage on its contents difficult... but also of obsessive interest to many... if, for no other reason, because of the suspense factor.
(Ironically enough, some adherents of the Old Mass maintain that Siri -- legendary for his conservatism, among other things -- had been elected to the papacy in the conclave of 1958, chose the name Gregory XVII, was promptly forced into resigning by a liberal cabal, which then chose John XXIII -- who, due to the cited circumstances, was an antipope, along with all of his successors since.... This has been your "Sedevacantist Trivia of the Day.")
While separating the wheat from the chaff hasn't been easy on this one, it's why these pages are read, so here's the scene as it's looking. At least, for now. You never know -- the way things are going, it could all change in 20 minutes. Again.
As of earlier today, not one copy of the document had yet turned up at the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, nor among other usual suspects who customarily get embargoed copies of significant papal messages; alongside the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, which handles matters pertaining to the Pian Rite indult, CDW and the Congregations for the Clergy and the Doctrine of the Faith were the three lead dicasteries involved in the consultations and prep-work for the drafting of the text.
The means of transmission has become an element of note as credible reports say that, like the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's recent "Notification" on the work of the Basque Jesuit theologian John Sobrino, the world's bishops could be receiving a special cover letter over and above the public contents. It should go without saying that any such added missive on a topic which has engendered such strong reactions in many quarters of the global episcopate will be as interesting, if not moreso, than the integral text. With its cover letter, the Sobrino judgment was sent electronically to the bishops several days before its publication (sans cover) in the daily Bollettino of the Holy See Press Office and the pages of the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.
While supporters of the "classical" liturgy, placed in abeyance after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, expect the document to affirm the Mass of Pius V (in its 1962 version) as an immemorial custom of the Roman rite and the privilege of celebrating it under the new text's provisions as permanent, it's also been said that Benedict might implement his intended norms solely for an ad experimentum period of five years, at whose end the Holy See would revisit the question with the benefit of observing its results in the field.
That's the canvass as of this minute. As for the other shoe(s), wait and see.
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LOL! What a gnoofball!
I think you have insulted gnoofballs. ;-)
Take your “niceness nodules,” dear...
It’s cute, actually.
I just coined “gnoofball” last week, along with “dzinbat.” Fun with silent letters ...
Just received this from a friend by email...a new Tridentine Order! Laus tibi Christi!
There is a new society of priests being formed. They are called, The Apostles of Jesus Christ, Priest and Victim. The cardinal has agreed to allow this group to form and to see how it works out. Because I knew this could insure good and hold priests at St. John Vianney for the future, I agreed to host the society. Right now, the society consists of Fr. Eduardo Garcia, Fr. Dwight Campbell, and Fr. Ben Reese. Some of these priests you already know, and some you probably have never seen. It is their hope that the society will grow, but right now we are able to house them. While here, they will be doing pastoral work at St. John Vianney.
Fr. Dwight Campbell, from the Peoria diocese will be joining us in May. He is finishing his doctorate in Mariology from the International Mariological Institute at the University of Dayton. He is writing his dissertation on a history of the Two Hearts (of Jesus and Mary). We welcome him!
In addition, Fr. Ben Reese, also from the diocese of Peoria, who celebrated a few Masses here over the past year, will also be joining us. Fr. Reese will be replacing Fr. Mathias as our in-residence priest. Fr. Ben will be in-residence for the next year, as he works on his doctorate at the University of St. Mary of the Lake. I’m sure he will get involved a little in the parish, although his primary task is to try to finish writing his dissertation. He should be joining us in June.
~Fr. Thomas Refermat, pastor of St. John Vianney Parish, Northlake, IL
What is it with Free Republic.
Can’t things from Rocco Palmo simply be posted without the girls’ claws coming out after him in snide asides???
The obsession with and lack of charity toward Rocco that constantly recur on this site are . . . . to avoid the B-word, catty, and unworthy of Christian men.
Very interesting.
“Gnoofball” is a term of endearment. It’s not as respectful as “Noodle,” but not a dismissal like “dzingbat.”
Have a Guinness! I understand that Guinness with a raw egg and sugar is a full meal.
You’re allowed to act like a girl.
You are one (apparently = chick).
The boys on here who get all catty and b****y whenever Rocco is mentioned should GET OVER HIM and act like men.
Simple as that.
Not for nothing did one critic dismiss those attached to decent liturgies with a piece entitled: “Liturgies, Lace and Lavender Ladies.”
We Traditionalists are our own worst enemies.
I am a girl; well, an over-40 female, to be precise. And I’m not even a Traditionalist; I’m a Suburbanite!.
A blogger has to expect a variety of comments, particularly one as quirky as Mr. Palma. Sometimes I don’t understand a word he’s saying, because it’s all in-crowd, “see-how-connected-I-am,” nudging and winking. Cebu, that’s what it’s like in the blog-biz.
Nonetheless, the “Sedevacantist Trivia” bit was clever, in a gnoofball sorta way.
New Liturgical Movement
Thursday, May 03, 2007
New Priestly Society: The Apostles of Jesus Christ, Priest and Victim
[The following comes from a bulletin announcement. The new priestly society, ad experimentum, is in the Archdiocese of Chicago. There is speculation from some who know at least some of these men that this will be another “Society of St. John Cantius” type priestly society. The annoucement:]
“There is a new society of priests being formed. They are called, The Apostles of Jesus Christ, Priest and Victim. The cardinal has agreed to allow this group to form and to see how it works out. Because I knew this could insure good and hold priests at St. John Vianney for the future, I agreed to host the society. Right now, the society consists of Fr. Eduardo Garcia, Fr. Dwight Campbell, and Fr. Ben Reese. Some of these priests you already know, and some you probably have never seen. It is their hope that the society will grow, but right now we are able to house them. While here, they will be doing pastoral work at St. John Vianney.
“Fr. Dwight Campbell, from the Peoria diocese will be joining us in May. He is finishing his doctorate in Mariology from the International Mario logical Institute at the University of Dayton. He is writing his dissertation on a history of the Two Hearts (of Jesus and Mary). We welcome him!
“In addition, Fr. Ben Reese, also from the diocese of Peoria, who celebrated a few Masses here over the past year, will also be joining us. Fr. Reese will be replacing Fr. Mathias as our in-residence priest. Fr. Ben will be in-residence for the next year, as he works on his doctorate at the University of St. Mary of the Lake. I’m sure he will get involved a little in the parish, although his primary task is to try to finish writing his dissertation. He should be joining us in June.”
posted by Shawn Tribe
Dom Bettinelli states a correction is in order. From his blog today:
http://www.bettnet.com/blog/index.php/weblog/motu_proprio_sightings/
Motu proprio sightings
Rocco posts his update on the expect motu proprio to free the Tridentine Mass and discusses the expected timeline.
“As of earlier today, not one copy of the document had yet turned up at the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, nor among other usual suspects who customarily get embargoed copies of significant papal messages…”
Not true, my boy, not true. A little Roman birdie tells me that the long-awaited document has been sighted in one of those very offices. While it doesn’t look good for a May 5 release (the latest in a long line of proposed dates, a game I decline to play), it’s moving right along.
Rocco posts his update on the expect motu proprio to free the Tridentine Mass and discusses the expected timeline.
As of earlier today, not one copy of the document had yet turned up at the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, nor among other usual suspects who customarily get embargoed copies of significant papal messages…
Not true, my boy, not true. A little Roman birdie tells me that the long-awaited document has been sighted in one of those very offices. While it doesn’t look good for a May 5 release (the latest in a long line of proposed dates, a game I decline to play), it’s moving right along.
Meanwhile, when the ball drops and the creek rises and Trent is once again out stalking about the land, the following warning label should be heeded:
< pops large bowl of popcorn and sits back >
What sayeth the good Father Z? Nothing yet. It’s getting to be like the soaps. At this point, I just want Altar Rails back and Altar boys that don’t wear bed sheets.
I like to read Rocco even when I don’t agree totally with him. Here I think he was merely stating what is a position held by some sedevacantists (I would be very surprised and shocked if I heard that he endorses the view—he does not fit the profile). Nevertheless, it was interesting to see the reference to Cardinal Siri’s diaries; maybe some day they will see the light of day, along with the reputed typescript autobiography of Fr. Louis Bouyer, which is rumored to contain damning first hand information concerning the Bugnini consilium and its workings.
On a different note, did you see Rocco’s other post recently wherein he said that a consistory is rumored to be coming, perhaps for 28 June, and that two red hats were thought likely for the US, one for +Wuerl, of course, in Washington, and the other...maybe “South”, which the folks I have spoken with here say suggests San Antonio, Houston or Miami.
I have to confess that having known Archbishop Gomez (San Antonio) when he was “Fr. Jose” here in Houston, I am pulling for him! Oremus—and hard.
You raise an interesting point, Theophane. In another thread on a different board, I was told that "south" to the Vatican does not mean what we construe as "south." This came in response to the possibility advanced of Archbishop Gregory of Atlanta being the man to get the nod. The respondent said that St. Louis is "south" to the Vatican and it could be for Archbishop Burke who is a brilliant theologian.
I personally believe that Texas is due. I have heard San Antonio mentioned before. It may be time for the former "cardinalatial Sees" in the U.S. to change considering the influx of Hispanics. That raises interesting points about D.C. and Baltimore. Baltimore was the first U.S. See, but D.C. seems to now have preeminence for political reasons. So, will one, both or neither get the nod? Only the Lord and Pope Benedict know! Then, too, recall that the "American" South is the fastest growing region for orthodoxy in the U.S. after the Midwest (note the Dominicans and other orders congregating in KY and AL, for example). So, could we have a southern state Cardinal?
Fr. Z. has a Podcast that says that the 5th of May is unlikely as a release date. I got that from the comments. I didn’t listen to the Podcast. It is here if you want it:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/05/podcazt-tertullian-on-heretics-and-5-may-for-the-motu-proprio/
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