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“Hail Goddess full of grace”
California Catholic Daily ^ | April 24, 2007

Posted on 04/25/2007 6:54:31 AM PDT by NYer

“WOW -- coming from RC tradition I thought I’d never return to the Rosary. But here it is and here SHE IS. Blessed be, Mairly.”

The “here” in this message, found on herchurch.org, is Ebenezer Lutheran Church in San Francisco. But the SHE is not the Mother of God. SHE is “God/dess.”

On Wednesdays at 7 p.m., Ebenezer opens its sanctuary for the “Christian Goddess Rosary.” The church says it offers “Goddess Rosary Beads” and that “prayers and suggested meditations will be on hand as well as incense, candles and bells.”

“The Goddess rosary is grounded in traditions of the Christian Church and the proclamation of the gospel which is a vision of release from bondage for a new creation,” says the church’s web site.

The Goddess Rosary page on herchurch.org says that though “God as Father plays an important role” in Christian tradition, its “exclusive emphasis... contributes to a limited understanding of God, an understanding that supports a domination structure that oppresses and subordinates women.” Jesus used “Abba” as a “revolutionary deconstruction of domination structures of his day in both religious and social institutions.” The modern task is to do the same with “Goddess.”

Ebenezer, however, does not want to eradicate masculine images of God but to balance them with feminine images to “confront the biblical texts, products of their day and cultures, for the blatant patriarchal biases and misogynist attitudes.” And herchurch.org cites three Catholic theologians in support this confrontation: Harvard’s Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, Fordham University’s Sister Elizabeth Johnson, and Rosemary Radford Ruether (who will lecture students in the course, “The History of God in Feminist Theological Discourse,” at LA’s Mount St. Mary’s College this spring.) Ruether calls the exclusive use of male imagery for God “idolatry.”

Herchurch.org offers a “Hail Goddess” prayer by feminist theologian Carol Christ, formerly of Harvard Divinity School but now director of the Ariadne Institute for Myth and Ritual in Greece. The prayer goes: “Hail Goddess full of grace. Blessed are you and blessed are all the fruits of your womb. For you are the MOTHER of us all. Hear us now and in all our needs. O blessed be, O blessed be. Amen.”

“I felt that I had stepped into a Presence, like a mother’s warm embrace,” wrote Dalyn Cook of Ebenezer’s Goddess Rosary. “The attendees were few in number, yet there was a sense of fullness in this welcoming space. I inhaled deeply the earthy scent of the incense, sending up delicate tendrils of smoke which curled around the altar in a nimbus visible against the warm rays of the evening sun filtering through the stained-glass windows....

“From the basket of rosaries, I took into my hand a strand of vibrantly-colored beads with a silver goddess icon in place of the traditional cross. The goddesses came in a variety of shapes and sizes, celebrating the beauty of the feminine form; I found reflections of my own figure in the full hips and Rubenesque curves of my goddess,” Cook wrote.


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: elca; goddess; hailmary; lillyendowment; lutheran; maryworship; rosary; sanfranciscovalues
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To: FormerLib; Dr. Eckleburg
Ok, so you do reject the idea that people who have passed from this life can be alive in Christ.

Not at all.

But LaHaye and Jenkins' research into the origins of such things indicates that the activity of praying to those departed from this life

BEGAN

WITH

PAGAN

ROME

and was carried over
into the early Roman church.

That historical fact is not particularly affirming to Bible Believing Christians.

Many of us do not believe that custom, !!!!TRADITION!!!! and organizational politics are wonderful mandates for spiritual behavior.

And there are sooooo many Scriptures indicating God's hostility toward ANYTHING TO DO with pagan practices . . . it's more than a little troubling.

421 posted on 04/30/2007 8:41:17 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Mad Dawg

1st Samuel 28 gives a pretty good summation of what happens when one appeals to the dead saints for assistance.


422 posted on 04/30/2007 8:41:58 AM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: Cvengr

Saints are never dead. They are fully alive with Christ Jesus for all eternity. That is the whole essence of Christian belief—”life on high with Christ Jesus.”


423 posted on 04/30/2007 8:47:29 AM PDT by Running On Empty
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To: Cvengr

1st Samuel 28 gives a pretty good summation of what happens when one appeals to the dead saints for assistance.
= = =

Indeed. I’d forgotten about that one.

Thx


424 posted on 04/30/2007 8:51:51 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: NYer

The Holy Scriptures make it quite clear (through the use of the pronoun “He”, etc.) that God is male. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary. We can therefore state with great confidence than God has male genitalia (or at least the spiritual equivalent thereof), both an X and a Y chromosome, and so forth.


425 posted on 04/30/2007 8:52:06 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: Running On Empty

Semantics don’t hide the fact that Scripture has a number of Scriptures indicating that praying to those passed from this life is NOT God’s pleasure.


426 posted on 04/30/2007 8:53:03 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: FormerLib

Do NOT insult me, lib. I’ve been a Christian for 38 years. I know who I am in Christ. I’m just not a catholic! Sorry.


427 posted on 04/30/2007 9:01:33 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: betty boop; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
Trying to encourage others to read and understand the bible, betty, is not bashing. If they are doing something that has spiritual consequences, and blindly following along without ever hearing the Word of Truth, then we have to at least alert them to the error. Ezekiel 3:17

Mostly the warned are quick to take offense at the messenger, just as always has been the case

428 posted on 04/30/2007 9:03:41 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings ("The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." Andrew Jackson, President of U.S.)
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To: Quix

Exactly.


429 posted on 04/30/2007 9:06:03 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Cvengr
What is this, the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" defense? YOU guys brought up Lazarus, Dives, rockin' my soul in the bosom of Abraham and the great gulf, not me. Are we done with that? Have we finished with that argument? If so, did anything get resolved? Or is the idea to run as fast as possible from a weak part of the line and open up another front, as though this were a war not a conversation? If not why bring up another argument?

Rumor has it that the economy of salvation was mysteriously but profoundly altered a few years after Saul went to the necromancer of Endor to get her to COMPEL Samuel up from Sheol, the pit. Something about a lamb who was victim and priest and death being trampled down by death.

Consequently we have a different situation, in terms of the heilsgeschichte, and an appeal to a saint among the blessed rather than a necromancer's conjuring the shade of a Pre-Christ, pre-resurrection judge from the pit.

Oh wait, I guess I should go to my Bible before I say any more, since we all know Catholics don't know their Scripture.

IN any event, if I weren't still wondering if we've disposed of Lazarus, Dives, and the great gulf, I'd suggest that the differences are so great that the comparison of me on my knees in Church or at home with the witch of Endor is maybe just a tad forced. (I'm WAY better looking, for one thing.)

430 posted on 04/30/2007 9:09:40 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: Quix

Actions speak louder than words. The repetition of “Magiscsterical” is enough to show me that the gratuitous inflicting of rhetorical pain is higher on the Protestant list than looking for common ground, and mockery stronger and more attractive than reason or comity.


431 posted on 04/30/2007 9:15:46 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: Quix
Semantics don’t hide the fact that Scripture has a number of Scriptures indicating that praying to those passed from this life is NOT God’s pleasure.

Okay, let's see 'em. But first, how we doin' on the great gulf fixed? It may be mere semantics to you but you've failed to show it. You've got a gulf between t2wo sets of dead people and you wnat it to be between the living and the dead. Just because there's a gulf somewhere doesn't mean it's where you claim it is. Is "semantics" what you say when your argument is shot down in flames? YOU guys put up Lazarus and Samuel, we show why we disagreee, you start talking "semantics' and lots of other verses you have in your locker back home. That's okay for street fights, but it's not really good for brothers looking at doctrinal questions.

432 posted on 04/30/2007 9:21:50 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: Quix

But you’ve again shifted from the Christian practice of asking those alive in Christ to pray for us to the pagan practice of actually praying to the dead (ancestral worship).

If you keep the two concepts separate, then in is clear that the Christian practice affirms Christ’s victory over death.


433 posted on 04/30/2007 9:22:39 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Marysecretary
I’m not a Roman Catholic either but being a Christian means that you believe in Christ’s victory over death (although there are so many sects redefining what it means to be a Christian that it’s impossible to keep track of them all).

Denying that those who pass from this life can remain alive in Christ denies that central belief.

434 posted on 04/30/2007 9:25:21 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: 1000 silverlings

True. True.


435 posted on 04/30/2007 9:28:49 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
I see you called in your homies. And then while you denied you were mocking us you then said: I realize, of course, that assumption, inference and extrapolation are ONLY HOLY WHEN RC'S DO IT. But, I'm human enough to do it anyway.
And then you changed the subject.

Are we talking about Lazarus and Dives or what here? YOU brought it up. YOU said it proved your point. Is your argument, "RCs extrapolate so I'm going to say that a bridge over HERE is definite Biblical PROOF that GOD also put a bridge over THERE."

Of course, I've been suggesting for a while now that "proof" from Scripture is an almost infinitely elastic concept. I did't expect someone who calls himself Bible-believing but then argues that " a gulf here over which communication CAN happen" means "a gulf there over which communication can NOT happen" would be providing evidence for that point.

436 posted on 04/30/2007 9:31:28 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus loves me, this I know, for his Mother tells me so. (and the Church and the Bible too))
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To: Running On Empty

Dead as in separated from their physical bodies until the resurrection.


437 posted on 04/30/2007 9:38:59 AM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: Mad Dawg; All; betty boop; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg

Am very sorry that’s the feeling responded with.

I have noted that every denomination has their magicsterical and that similar hazards accrue to the Proty versions.

I have also noted that age etc. tends to worsen the effects and that THAT is a big reason the RC version of a magicsterical has so many deeply entrenched hazards associated with it.

It is a useful shorthand, for me. Folks can treat it as a personal assault if they are of that bent. Proties are expected to have thick skins but not RC’s, it seems.

Magicsterical is a lot shorter than—”the associated ecclesiastical body of leading theological intellectuals and leaders in a particular denomination.”

And, yes, I do believe that ANY of them are highly likely, in any denomination or congregation of any serious age at all—ANY of them are highly likely to have magical assumptions, presumptions, inferences, extrapolations, customs, behaviors as well as hysterical assumptions, presumptions, inferences, extrapolations, customs and behaviors. I’ve seen it in small house churches as well as international denominations.

That is the nature of our human tendencies. That is the nature of IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP sensibilities and biases. It just so happens that the older and larger groups tend to be worse at it.

It’s far, far, far more a human issue than a denominational or RC issue. The RC’s just happen, from my perspective, to have the oldest, largest and worst example of such pontifical leading bodies.

However, I recognize the knee jerk tendency to be offended. That also is pretty human. I don’t know why it seems to be more intense, more common and more instant amongst the RC’s hereon than amongst all the other Christian groups.

Usually, when I disagree with a label or an assessment—I may pontificate—even shrilly—for the benefit of others. But at some point, it’s just quickly a non-issue. It’s the other person’s perspective. They are entitled to their perspective. It does NOT mean I have to feel one-down; insulted; maligned or demeaned REGARDLESS of the other person’s motive. It’s just information. If it’s WRONG information from my perspective, no big deal.

I may occasionally act/respond differently as I’m human. But generally, I think that fits.


438 posted on 04/30/2007 9:39:41 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary
If they're on earth and still living, I certainly don't reject it.

AMEN! Exactly right. To presume those in heaven can, need or even want to intercede for us on earth is idolatry. More hocus pocus. Not much different than any errant spiritualism.

Those saints in heaven are joyously preoccupied with glorifying God. Our job is to do the same.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5

There just aren't many verses in Scripture more clear than this. We ignore it at our peril.

439 posted on 04/30/2007 9:43:28 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg

I dealt with that gulf issue to my satisfaction when I talked about RC’s being very extreme examples of inferring, extrapolating, assuming all kinds of LONG held traditions, customs, doctrines [e.g. 99.9% of the Mariology] based on very tenuous inferences from tiny bits of Scripture here and there.

I consider it MUCH MORE PLAUSIBLE to infer that the Scriptural mentions of the gulf . . . and the tone and attitude of God in discussing or presenting them . . . that God’s attitude is that He expects us to abide by HIS sensibilities about such a gulf. That we are to live our lives here essentially divorced from those who’ve gone before. THE ONLY ETERNAL BEINGS GOD SEEMS TO PREFER US TO HAVE TO DO WITH ARE THE FATHER, SON AND SPIRIT and such angels as He may on occasion send our way. Seeking after other spirits; departed saints etc. for help or aid or ANY other thing seems to us to be clearly fronwed upon, AT BEST.

I thought all that was clearer. Sorry.


440 posted on 04/30/2007 9:44:28 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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