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To: DouglasKC
"the violation of these COMMANDMENTS were considered sins BEFORE the covenant was ratified."

They were not commandments, before they were commanded, therefore not subject to violation. Sin did occur before the Commandments were given and acts which were unrighteous included those mentioned in the commandments.

Here is another interpretation of the same issue from over a century ago.

Verses 4-9. He makes a contrast between sin and the new nature and shows the marks of one who abides in Christ and one who hath not seen Him neither knows Him. "Every one that practiseth sin, practiseth lawlessness; for sin is lawlessness, this is the correct rendering. The definition of sin as "transgression of the law" is misleading and incorrect. Before there ever was a law, sin was in the world (Romans 5:12, etc.); how then can sin be the transgression of the law? It is not sins of which John speaks, but sin, the evil nature of man. Here the apostle regards man as doing nothing else but his own, natural will; he lives as a natural man. He acts independently of God, and, as far as he is concerned, never does anything but his own will. John is, therefore, not speaking. of positive overt acts, but of the natural man's habitual bent and character, his life and nature.

Arno Gaebelein 1861-1942 "THE FIRST EPISTLE OF JOHN" Chap IV

75 posted on 04/21/2007 12:43:05 PM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: Cvengr
They were not commandments, before they were commanded, therefore not subject to violation. Sin did occur before the Commandments were given and acts which were unrighteous included those mentioned in the commandments.

I think we're saying the same thing differently, but I also think that there is biblical evidence that God shared his codified commandments with certain people before Sinai, specifically Abraham. This is another excerpt from the booklet "The New Covenant"

Most religious teachers say that God's commands given through Moses applied only to ancient Israel and are not for us today. But in drawing that conclusion, most of them overlook the full significance of what God said about Abraham's obedience in Genesis 26:5, hundreds of years before God spoke to Moses and Israel at Mt. Sinai: "Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws" (NIV).

The Hebrew words God uses here are especially important. As The Expositor's Bible Commentary explains regarding this verse: "The Lord then added a remarkable note: Abraham 'kept my requirements [mismarti], my commands [miswotay], my decrees [huqqotay] and my laws [wetorotay]' (v. 5).

"It is remarkable that this is precisely the way in which obedience to the Sinai Covenant is expressed in Deuteronomy 11:1: 'Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements [mismarto], his decrees [huqqotayw], his laws [mispatayw] and his commands [miswotayw]' . . .

"Thus Abraham is an example of one who shows the law written on his heart (Jeremiah 31:33). He is the writer's ultimate example of true obedience to the law, the one about whom the Lord could say, 'Abraham obeyed me' (v. 5). Thus, by showing Abraham to be an example of 'keeping the law,' the writer has shown the nature of the relationship between the law and faith. Abraham, a man who lived in faith, could be described as one who kept the law" (Vol. 2, 1990, pp. 186-187, emphasis added).

Abraham obeyed the same foundational spiritual laws that were given later to Israel. However, the symbolic tabernacle or temple ceremonies and rituals and Israel's national administrative laws were not applicable in Abraham's day. Nor are they necessary for individual Christians today, because a physical temple is no longer the center of our worship as it was in the ancient nation of Israel (John 4:19-21; Hebrews 9:9-10).

Thus, Abraham knew a lot more about God's requirements for and definitions of righteous behavior than most religious teachers give him credit for today. It also means that the laws defining righteous attitudes and behavior that were given to Israel were known and practiced by servants of God long before the Sinai Covenant was ever established.

76 posted on 04/21/2007 12:54:43 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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