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Should John Paul II be canonised?
The Belfast Telegraph ^ | April 03, 2007

Posted on 04/10/2007 4:41:32 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

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A very one-sided article - and corrections would be welcome - but it does raise at least one IMO valid concern, namely the short timespan since JPII's death...
In the old days, you had to wait a long time before they made you a saint. It was 500 years before they canonised Joan of Arc....

....For the first 400 years you had to be a martyr to be a saint. But then confessors (outstanding teachers and bishops) and hermits and virgins began to be added. It was the acclamation of local people which was the deciding factor.

Eventually Rome got fed up with this. In AD993, the first saint to be declared by a pope arrived - Ulrich of Augsburg, who was pronounced by Pope John XV. Within about 200 years Pope Alexander III declared that no one should be venerated as a saint without the authority of Rome.

In 1734, Pope Benedict XIV set up a formal system requiring two miracles for beatification, two more for canonisation and a promotor justitiae (Devil's Advocate) whose job it was to thwart the proposed canonisation by any lawful means.


1 posted on 04/10/2007 4:41:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Benedict waved the waiting period (as JPII had previously done for Mother Teresa), the customary requirements for sainthood are still intact. There was talk initially of naming JPII a martyr because of the assassination attempt (though it is very unusual, there is no requirement that a martyr actually die), but that seems to have been dropped.


2 posted on 04/10/2007 4:45:30 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Alex Murphy

There have been saints in the past who had a fairly quick route to the altars and were practically canonized by acclamation. However, the process that has been in place for quite some time now is slower and more demanding.

The article does have a rather peculiar point of view; I’d hazard a guess and say the writer is way on the liberal side!

That said, however, I’d feel a little better if they waited on canonizing JPII. Popularity shouldn’t be an automatic passport to sainthood. I’d like more discussion of the reasons for his canonization. He wasn’t in the “Doctor of the Church” category, so I suppose it would be heroic virtue of some kind. I thought he died a very good death, very humble and unafraid of suffering and humiliation.


3 posted on 04/10/2007 4:52:59 PM PDT by livius
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To: wagglebee
(as JPII had previously done for Mother Teresa)

I had forgotten about that...good point.

4 posted on 04/10/2007 4:55:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy
Such haste allowed contemporaries to recall that as well as caring for the destitute and dying, the "Angel of Calcutta" had some rather questionable friends among nasty Third World dictators.

So did JESUS and his apostles if I remember correctly. They converted them.

5 posted on 04/10/2007 4:58:50 PM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: Alex Murphy; saradippity; Phx_RC
There is a widespread movement among ordinary Catholics for his canonization

This alone should be in the "no" category. It isn't up to the laity to decide "who's in, and who's not." Despite what the liberals who have infected the Church would like to think.

He bore his final illness with extraordinary fortitude and commitment to his church's teachings on the sanctity of life.

God bless him, but extraordinary?

Though he had his faults, the criteria for sainthood allow those to be outweighed by his "heroic virtue"

Never mind kissing the Koran (or was he checking to see if the cover was leather...I always forget...) giving it some sort of "reverence", or the liberal ecumemania at Assisi, where the theme was "Can't we all get along?" But, I guess we'll have to see just what "virtues" will outweigh his "faults."

6 posted on 04/10/2007 5:03:13 PM PDT by kstewskis ("Tolerance is what happens when one loses their principles"....Fr. A. Saenz)
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To: Alex Murphy

Heck, the US military used to retire folks a grade higher than their active duty rank....


7 posted on 04/10/2007 5:33:30 PM PDT by Grut
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To: Alex Murphy

IMO he ought to be canonized as a “white martyr” thus forgoing the need for miracles. Plus he ought to be officially styled “John Paul the Great” and he ought to be declared a Doctor of the Church. “The Mercy Doctor” since he promulgated the devotion and feast of Divine Mercy and died on the vigil of that feast day.

And for his feast day? Maybe move Our Lady of Fatima to 13 October when the miracle of the Sun happened and have his feast day on 13 May when the attempt was made on his life.

I think his relic ought to be brought to the main floor of St Peter’s and a monument erected as one enters the basilica.

He must never be forgotten! He is the Pope, the saint of the Third Millenium!

Both the Left and the Right hate him but the people love him!


8 posted on 04/10/2007 5:56:55 PM PDT by Macoraba
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To: Alex Murphy; livius
There are many people with Aids in Africa, his critics will point out, who have no cause to give thanks to the Vatican and its policy forbidding the use of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV - or to the man at the helm when the disease reached pandemic proportions, even if he is now called St John Paul.

I'd say it's pretty clear what the author's agenda is.

9 posted on 04/10/2007 5:58:26 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Tax-chick
I'd say it's pretty clear what the author's agenda is.

Absolutely.

11 posted on 04/10/2007 6:00:37 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Larry Lucido

Some of your stuff is funnier than others.


12 posted on 04/10/2007 6:04:08 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
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To: Alex Murphy
He also honoured a Czech nun beheaded by the Nazis for refusing to remove crucifixes from hospital rooms, a young Italian woman who chose death over rape, and the stigmatic Padre Pio, whom two previous popes regarded as a fraud and whose photograph has even been found in the wallets of arrested Mafiosi.

Oh, no! Say it ain't so, Padre Pio!

What a cruddy journalist! Almost makes me cheer for an early canonization for JP, even though I'm more inclined to let the bureaucratic wheels grind slowly and exceedingly fine.

13 posted on 04/10/2007 6:04:38 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("His mother said to the servants, 'Do whatever He tells you.' ")
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To: Tax-chick

Yes. He had all the usual lefty buzz-words in there.


14 posted on 04/10/2007 6:08:59 PM PDT by livius
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To: Alex Murphy
His outlawing of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV means he was responsible for the deaths of huge numbers of people

GAG

15 posted on 04/10/2007 7:52:24 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Petronski

Okay, I recognize the different people can see the same person in different ways, and certainly many revere the person I mentioned (I mean, there is at least one college named after him). And some thoughts can remain unstated from time to time.

This thread was about JPII and while I have no particular opinion on what the RC Church should do, I’ll repeat my oft-stated opinion that JPII was 1/3 of a 20th century holy trinity consisting of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thather and JPII (in addition to his other ordained mission of shepharding his Church). So of any 20th century figure deserving of such recognition, JPII ranks right up there.


16 posted on 04/10/2007 7:52:30 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hunter-Thompson '08)
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To: Petronski

Actually, I am thinking better of #10, so I’m committing self-abuse and asking that it be pulled.


17 posted on 04/10/2007 7:59:52 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Hunter-Thompson '08)
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To: Alex Murphy
A very one-sided article..

Yep. So much so it's not worth the time argue against its faults. Not one of your better posts, but I appreciate your trying.

18 posted on 04/10/2007 8:33:30 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: Larry Lucido

Bravo.


19 posted on 04/10/2007 8:54:28 PM PDT by Petronski (FRED!)
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To: livius
a young Italian woman who chose death over rape

Maria Goretti? She was canonized by Pius XII, not JPII. Not only is the author's agenda showing, but he didn't even check his facts.

20 posted on 04/10/2007 9:03:52 PM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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