Hell is a REAL PLACE. The “state of mind” that is separation from God is because you are in hell.
I’ll skip the Catechism since it is not in agreement with the Bible. BTW, it is Christ that spoke repeadetly about hell as a PLACE.
WORD PICTURES OF HEAVEN
A beautiful city: Heb 11:16; 13:14; Rev 21
WORD PICTURE OF HELL
The garbage dump of City: Mk 9:43-48 (Hell=Gehenna=Valley of Hinnom=Dump)
WORD PICTURE OF HEAVEN
Eternal day: Rev 21:25 + 22:5
WORD PICTURE OF HELL
Eternal night, black darkness: Mt 22:13; 25:30; Jude 13; 2 Pet 2:17
WORD PICTURE OF HEAVEN
Sabbath rest: Heb 3:12-4:11; Rev 14:13
WORD PICTURE OF HELL
The second death: Rev 2:11; 20:6,14
WORD PICTURE OF HEAVEN
New heavens & earth: 2 Pet 3:3-13; Rev 21:1
WORD PICTURES OF HELL
Exiled & banished away from God’s new kingdom: 2 Thes 1:9; Mt 22:13; Rev 22:15
WORD PICTURE OF HEAVEN
A garden paradise: Rev 2:7; 22:2-3
WORD PICTURES OF HELL
Beaten & tortured while shackled in prison: Lk 12:47-48; Mt 22:13; 18:34; 24:51
WORD PICTURE OF HEAVEN
Holy place in Jewish tabernacle: Heb 9:11,24
WORD PICTURE OF HELL
Eternal fire: Mt 25:41; 13:42; Jude 7
C. Heaven and hell are of the same nature:
1. Not of this world, realm or creation: Jn 18:36; Heb 9:11,24; Rev 20:11=2 Pe 3:10
II. 9 WORD PICTURES OF HELL
A. Hell=Greek, “Gehenna”: “SENTENCE OF GEHENNA”: MT 23:33
1. Used 13x in NT: Mt 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:8,9; 23:15,33; Mk 9:43,45,47; Lk 12:5; Jas 3:6
2. Deep narrow valley outside Jerusalem: Valley of Hinnon, Josh 15:8, see MAP next page
3. Why did Jesus choose the valley of hinnon as the ultimate picture of hell?
a) Human sacrifices offered to Baal & Moleck: 2 Chr 28:3; 33:6; 2 Ki 23:10; Jer 7:31; 19:2-6; 32:35
b) Some have speculated it was the garbage dump of Jerusalem at the time of Christ:
(1) filth, dead animals and bodies of executed criminals
(2) Some suggest that fires were stoked to burn and sanitize
(3) Barnes, “...It was the place where to throw all the dead carcasses and filth of the city; and wan frequently the place of executions. The sight was horrible, the air was polluted and to preserve it in any manner of purity, it was necessary to keep fires continually burning there. The Jew’s extreme loathsomeness of the place, the filth and putrefaction, the corruption of the atmosphere, and the lurid fires blazing by day and night, made it one of the most appalling symbols with which a Jew was acquainted.”
4. Penalty for the sons of Gehenna: Mt 23:15,33
5. Purpose: Body and soul will be destroyed: Mt 10:28
6. Duration of Gehenna: Eternal: Mt 18:8,9 (Eternal fire = Gehenna fire)
a) Some think Gehenna depicts annihililation, yet the fire itself is described as eternal
7. Only two elements directly mentioned with Gehenna:
a) Unquenchable, eternal fire: Mk 9:43,45,47; Mt 5:22,29,30; 18:8,9; Jas 3:6
b) Eternal worms: Mk 9:48
B. Wicked cast into eternal fire: Mt 25:41 (3 FIGURES EXCLUDING GEHENNA FIRE)
1. Unquenchable fire of Gehenna: Mk 9:43,45,47; Mt 5:22,29,30; 18:8,9; Jas 3:6
2. Furnace of fire
a) Burn chaff with unquenchable fire Mt 3:12; Lk 3:17
b) Burn tares in furnace of fire: Mt 13:42,50
3. Rain of fire and brimstone:
a) Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Gen 19:24,28; (antitype of hell: Jude 7)
4. Lake of fire which burns with brimstone (sulfur): Rev 19:20; 20:10; 21:8
a) “Once a brimstone (sulfur) deposit ignites, it would melt & run in burning streams down the ravines spreading everywhere suffocating fumes the ordinary match” ISBE
b) “Torrents of brimstone” (fast moving flows): Isa 30:33
c) “Lake of fire” could also be a reference to lava from a volcano
C. Exiled & banished from God’s kingdom:
1. “Away from God’s presence”: 2 Th 1:9; cast into outer darkness: Mt 22:13
D. Eternal night:
1. “outer darkness”: Mt 22:13; 25:30; black darkness, Jude 13; 2 Pe 2:17
2. Counterpart: Heaven likened unto eternal day: Rev 21:25; 22:5
E. The second death: Rev 2:11; 20:6,14
F. A scourging, shackled torturing in prison:
1. Scourge: “lashes, cut in pieces” Lk 12:47-48; Mt 24:51
2. Shackled: “bind hand & foot” Mt 22:13
3. Tortured: “handed over to torturer: Mt 18:34
G. Worse than drowned in sea with millstone hung around neck: Mt 18:6
III. FACTS ABOUT HELL
A. A place of everlasting destruction: 2 Th 1:9; Phil 3:19; Heb 10:39
B. A place of conscious punishment
1. Both the rich man and Lazarus were fully conscious: Lk 16:19-31
2. “away from the presence of God”: 2 Th 1:9
a) indicates conscious existence in exile not annihilation
3. A place of suffering, affliction and retribution: 2 Th 1:5-8
4. Weeping and gnashing of teeth: Mt 13:42,50; 25:30
C. Duration of punishment is forever, eternity
1. The same words that describe hell also describe God and duration of heaven
a) forever: Rev 14:11; 20:10
b) black darkness forever: Jude 13
c) Eternal: Mt 25:46 (heaven and hell alike)
2. Eternal day of Christians is same duration as eternal night of lost
3. The undying worm, everlastingly consuming an unconsumable body
4. No second chance:
a) Appointed to die once then comes judgement: Heb 9:27
b) Great gulf fixed between good and bad: Lk 16
5. Annihilation is a false doctrine:
Based fundamentally upon the false doctrine that rejects the dichotomous nature of man. Eternal punishment is likened unto setting fire to dry leaf. The leaf is destroyed forever, it ceases to exist and the fire goes out although nothing could extinguish the fire before the leaf was fully consumed. “Carnalists” believe the Bible teaches “eternal destruction” (destroyed forever) rather than “eternal punishment” (conscious pain forever). The Bible mentions a punishment worse than physical death: Heb 10:28-29 What is it if not hell?
D. Hell is a demonstration of God’s justice: 2 Th 1:5-10
1. The “carnalist” type groups who teach annihilation argue that God would not be just to punish a man forever.
2. Just as no one can actually understand the logic behind God’s mercy in saving us through Christ dying on the cross, we probably can’t understand God’s justice with hell.
E. Degrees of punishment in hell
1. Proof texts:
a) Many and few lashes: Lk 12:47-48
b) Both lost but one judgement more tolerable than other: Mt 11:24
c) Hypocrites will receive “greater condemnation”: Mk 12:40
d) Better for them if they had never been Christians: 2 Pe 2:20-21
2. The basis of the degree of punishment is not the frequency or magnitude of sin, but rather how accountable the individual was to God: (teachers- stricter judgement Jas 3:1)
a) The elder who runs off with another women will be punished more severely than any of the recent mass murder-rapists.
b) It is not a matter of how bad they sinned but the degree they knew it was sin.
3. Danger of those who reject degrees of punishment and reward:
a) It directly contradicts scripture: Lk 12:47-48; Mt 11:24; Mk 12:40; 2 Pe 2:20-21
b) It violates that there are in fact, as everyone recognizes, varying degrees of sin in a practical way.
c) It violates everything the Old Testament law taught about varying degrees of punishment for varying sins.
d) It violates the principle of every civil/criminal code in the world by punishing all crimes identically. (Remember that most civil codes were built upon Judeo-Christian principles, the rest upon common sense.)
e) It violates everything human parents understand in raising children, (just try disciplining children the identical way for varying sins.)
f) It is patterned after “communism”, where all get the same thing in spite of personal effort. It gives no incentive to excel. And no discouragement to sin the more!
g) It allows men to get the same reward for minimum effort. It condones, legislates and entrenches a mindset of mediocrity in the church. Statements like, “Hey what do we pay the preacher for!” is the fruit of this false doctrine! As one brother said, “This doctrine poisons the well-springs of zeal!”
h) It encourages Ketchersidism for if all men get the same reward, regardless of the extent of sin in each of their personal lives, then any one can see the close connection between, “We all get to heaven, regardless of our varying degrees of personal sin” AND “All the denominations get to heaven regardless of their varying degrees of doctrinal sin.” (No one believes we are saved by either moral or doctrinal perfection!)
10 Descriptions Are Symbolic
A. Physical garbage dump outside of Jerusalem
B. 4 Different figures of fire: (INCLUDING GEHENNA)
1. Fire of Gehenna
2. furnace of fire
3. rain storm of fire and brimstone
4. lake of fire and brimstone
a) huge furnace with lake of fire inside, raining fire located in valley of hinnon in Jerusalem?
b) Or 4 different figures to depict the spiritual counterpart
C. Exile and banishment
D. Eternal night
E. A bottomless pit (Hades)
F. Scourged, while shacked in a prison
G. Worse than drowned in sea with millstone hung around neck: Mt 18:6
CONCLUSION: Not A Pretty Place
A. Touch: pain from burning fire
B. Taste: dry mouth, extreme thirst, blood from gnashing teeth
C. Smell: rotting garbage-Gehenna; rotten eggs-brimstone
D. Sight: smoke-fire; corruption-Gehenna or black darkness
E. Sound: moaning, weeping, crying, screaming
Fact About Heaven
Duration is forever, eternity: Mt 25:46; Rev 22:11
Fact About Hell
Duration is forever, eternity: Mt 25:46; Rev 14:11; 20:10; Jude 13. No 2nd chance: Heb 9:27; Never to enter heaven: Lk 16:26
Fact about Heaven
Conscious reward: Mt 5:11. Comfort from sufferings: Rom 8:18; 2 Cor 4:17-18
Fact About Hell
Conscious punishment: Lk 16:19-31; 2 Th 1:5-8; Mt 13:42,50; 25:30
Fact about Heaven
Physical & emotional healing: Rev 7:16; 21:4
Fact about Hell
Destruction: 2 Th 1:9; Phil 3:19; Mt 10:28
Fact about Heaven
Reward for obeying: 2 Pe 1:10-11
Fact about Hell
Punishment for bad conduct: Rom 2:5-11
Fact about Heaven
Better than our wildest imagination: Eph 3:20
Fact about Hell
Worse than any known fear and horror
Again, I’ll pass on false doctrine.
Heaven and Hell are REAL PLACES.
Their are MAJOR DIFFERENCE between Heaven and Hell.
How do I know this?
The BIBLE tells me so - not some egotistical sinner with an agenda that doesn’t match what the Bible states. In fact this sinner propagates lies that disagree with the Bible. The choice is yours. Believe God or just another sinner? I gently suggest you get to know God and throw this Catechism in the trash where it belongs. Ever notice how this “Catechism” OFTEN lacks Bible verses to support teachings? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? It is because this “Catechism” is not in line with Scripture - blindly believing false teachings isn’t good ... .
For once, understand and see what God says and be saved.
There is nothing more to say or repsond to. It is the BIBLE that tells us what to believe and for good reason.
Jer.17:9
[9] The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
This applies to all sinners and the desperate need to look to God, whose teachings are ALL in the Bible.
Where in the Bible does it say ALL of God's teachings have been included in the Bible?
Actually, it's full of Scripture references and quotations. Have you ever actually read it?
Hell is certainly real.
Do you think it is a place in our dimension; in our universe? Do you think you could build a spaceship (or any other sort of vehicle) to fly there ... and fly back?
(Yes, I know people talk about "going to hell and back," but that's a metaphor.)
I think that the afterlife exists on a different plane or state of existence from our own. You can't "get there from here" by normal, physical means because it's not a "place" in our universe in the same sense that Oshkosh, Wisconsin is a place in our universe.
1) God Created the entire universe and everything within it.
2) If Hell is a created place, then God must have made it.
3) Hell is where sinners go, and they go there because God puts them there at death.
4) The Saints only avoid Hell by the grace of God, which they themselves cannot obtain by their own will, only passively receive. The Scripture says the Saints "are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
5) If God is saving us from Hell through Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, then He is really saving us from Himself, because He is the one sending us to a place of torture He created for our eternal torment, and the only way to avoid going there is His selective choice.
5) Therefore, such a "god" is both a monster, a sociopath, and doubleminded. He created us to be with Him, then creates a place of torture which we cannot avoid ending up in by our own powers, then proposes to save us from what He Himself made, and to which He Himself supposedly has the power to either send us to or not.
The only reasonable conclusion is that salvation is being saved from God and His place of horrors in Hell that He proposes to send us to.
How do you square such nonsense with the Scriptures "God is love" and "God will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth"? If God really desired such things and was such a reality, He would certainly not place us in the trap of being unable to avoid eternal damnation except by His arbitrary will.
If you cannot properly interpret the posting of other FReepers.....
This is a rather comical claim, given what you've posted is misrepresentations.
A. A place of everlasting destruction: 2 Th 1:9; Phil 3:19; Heb 10:39
"Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1.9) - no mention of a "place".
"Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things." (Philippians 3.19) - no mention of a "place".
"But we are not the children of withdrawing unto perdition, but of faith to the saving of the soul." (Hebrews 10.39) - no mention of a "place".
2. “away from the presence of God”: 2 Th 1:9
2 Thessalonians says "Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"
In Greek, "oitines diken tisousin olethron aisnion apo prosopou tou kurios kai apo tes doxes tes ischuos autou" - "who [the] penalty shall suffer destruction eternal from [the] face of the Lord and from the glory of his power"
The LITERAL reading of that verse is that the vision of God and the glory of His power causes their eternal destruction. This is also how the King James Version reads it. However, I know that modern Protestants love to read all kinds of extra words into the Bible that are not there, but there are no other words there such as you've been quoting, such as "away".
Thus the NASB reads: "These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (the word "away" is not in the Greek text)
The RSV reads: "They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (the words "and exclusion" are not in the Greek text)
The NIV reads: "They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power" (the words "with" and "shut out" are not in the Greek text)
The Holman version reads: "These will pay the penalty of everlasting destruction, away from the Lord’s presence and from His glorious strength" (the words "pay", "with", and "away" are not in the Greek text)
The ISV version reads: "Such people will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's presence and from his glorious power" (the words "such people" and "by being seperated" are not in the Greek text).
It must be fun to be a Protestant creating a new Bible "translation". You just add words whenever you want and make the text fit your preconceived notions.
As to Hell, the Psalmist affirms in the clearest terms that God is present to those suffering Hell. He is, after all, omnipresent.
"If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present." (Psalm 138(139).8)
St. John also says this.
"If any man shall adore the beast and his image, and receive his character in his forehead, or in his hand; He also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mingled with pure wine in the cup of his wrath, and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the sight of the holy angels, and in the sight of the Lamb." (Apocalypse of St. John 14.9-10)
3. A place of suffering, affliction and retribution: 2 Th 1:5-8
"For an example of the just judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which also you suffer. Seeing it is a just thing with God to repay tribulation to them that trouble you: And to you who are troubled, rest with us when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, with the angels of his power: In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thessalonians 1.5-8)
That's 0 for 4 on alleged Bible verses stating Hell is a place. You'd be benched were you a ball player with such a record.