Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: OLD REGGIE
Let's make a minor correction to your recap:

Soon after his promotion as Secretariat of State in 1930, Pacelli began negotiations with Germany regarding the Concordat which has sparked much controversy over the years pertaining to the motives of the Vatican.

As you note, Pacelli began negotiations with Germany in 1930. That was not with the Nazis. Hitler didn't come into power until 1933 and negotiations began with the Nazis in April of that year, which is what I noted.

No correction required.

802 posted on 04/13/2007 11:25:42 AM PDT by Titanites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 783 | View Replies ]


To: Titanites; OLD REGGIE
Soon after his promotion as Secretariat of State in 1930, Pacelli began negotiations with Germany regarding the Concordat which has sparked much controversy over the years pertaining to the motives of the Vatican. ------- As you note, Pacelli began negotiations with Germany in 1930. That was not with the Nazis. Hitler didn't come into power until 1933 and negotiations began with the Nazis in April of that year, which is what I noted.

No --- your conclusion fails to take all the facts into account.

All previous German chancellors had rebuffed Pacelli's request for a Concordat. So unless and/or until Hitler, who was amenable to a Concordat, came into power, there would be no Concordat.

Therefore, if Pacelli was going to get his Concordat, then he had to make sure that Hitler came into power, and that was accomplished by getting the CCP to vote for the Enabling Acts.

Did you answer my question yet? Was the Enabling Act passed with the votes of the Monsignor Kass's Catholic Center Party? Yes or No.

809 posted on 04/13/2007 11:46:11 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 802 | View Replies ]

To: Titanites
As you note, Pacelli began negotiations with Germany in 1930. That was not with the Nazis. Hitler didn't come into power until 1933 and negotiations began with the Nazis in April of that year, which is what I noted.

The quote below is what I responded to.

Since the concordat was not agreed to until July (and negotiations didn't even begin until April), it is impossible for the concordat to have resulted in the passing of the Enabling Act of March.

Do you expect any sane person to believe a complicated treaty negotiation began and ended in less than 4 months?

We have no idea what was added, deleted, or changed in the few months between April and July and it makes no difference concerning the impact of the Concordat with Hitler. Pacelli is the one constant in this equation. The question is what was the RCC looking for, what was the Germant Government looking for. One thing is certain, the last powerful political party left in Germany was dissolved. Quid pro quo!

I'm sure the following articles made Hitler sad.

Article 16
Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: "Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.

Article 32
In view of the special situation existing in Germany, and in view of the guarantee provided through this Concordat of legislation directed to safeguard the rights and privileges of the Roman Catholic Church in the Reich and its component States, the Holy See will prescribe regulations for the exclusion of clergy and members of religious Orders from membership of political parties, and from engaging in work on their behalf.

818 posted on 04/13/2007 12:42:38 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 802 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson