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To: topcat54
I’m getting into this a little late but here goes Topcat54 wrote in post #34 that believers are disembodied spirits in Hades.

If this is true who was it that Christ paraded before all to see when He descended and then ascended into the heavens?

1 Pet 4:6 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1 Pet 3:19 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Eph 4:8-10 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Col 2:15 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

These are several verses that state that Christ descended preached to captive, and then openly paraded them before the principalities His victory over them.

There is no such thing as soul sleep of the righteous. Absence from the body is to be in the presence with the Lord

440 posted on 04/07/2007 9:33:41 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast? ("If God is your Father then I am your Brother" Larry Norman)
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?

Well stated.

The other verse which often accompanies the doctrine refers to how nothing can keep the believer from the love of God, neither depth nor authorities, nor principalities, etc. I’ll search it again.

Now prior to the Cross, believers descended into Hades to the compartment known as Paradise or Abraham’s Bosom after they died in the body. After the payment for sin, nothing kept those whom God loved from being in His presence.

With respect to our Lord and Savior, while on the cross, He was judged by the Father for the sins of all mankind, past, present, and future. Then when found accountable for those sins, was separated from God the Father in the spirit, i.e. died spiritually, as testified by Christ Himself while on the cross (Eli, Eli, ...why have you forsaken me?) At this point, our Lord and Savior was still alive in the soul and in the body.

He later committed his spirit (human spirit) to the Father (indicating his soul was still alive at that point. Then hung his head forward and breathed his last(bodily death).

(aside)An interesting point made by some is that the natural anatomical position for the head to have rested for those being crucified was to lay to the side, but not thrust out to the front. The hung head to the front indicates to some that it was an intentional act which resulted in the settlement of bodily fluids lower in the abdomen upon death. As the specific gravity of the blood settling in the abdomen caused the blood serum and clotting to separate out, upon being pierced in the side, the fluid pouring out would appear as blood and water. There are indications in the gospels that this account is consistent, but probably not with sufficient accuracy to prove against other plausible accounts consistent with Scripture. Nevertheless, I’ve found the report of the head being thrust foward and anatomical consequences to be an interesting perspective of the Cross.

His soul descended into Hades, which has 4 compartments, Paradise(Abraham’s Bosom), the Torments, Tartarus, and the lake of Fire. I haven’t seen the argument which describes which compartment he descended into, although we know that He did descend into Abraham’s Bosom from the prophecy on the Cross with the thief. Some have argued he also descended into the Torments, but I have not seen the full doctrine of such and my recall with Bible doctrine indicates His descent was into paradise.

His spirit ascended to the Father from the Cross when he relinguished it. His body, was later taken to the grave in the tomb.

Three days later, the soul was returned by the power of God the Holy Spirit. His human spirit was returned from heaven to the body by the power of God, the Father. And His body was raised again a resurrection body, united with his soul and spirit.

An enjoyable and fruitful study is to follow which person of the Godhead participated in each role of His resurrection.

Whereas sin has been paid for on the cross, we today may in an instant return to fellowship with God by simply turning to Him, and confessing our sins, because we know that they have been paid. This places us back into a sure fellowship with Him by His grace.

This is not the case with good and evil. The consequences of which must flow from time, not resolved by us today in an instant. Although we might return to God and be forgiven our sins in an instant, the consequences of those sins in good and evil are not resolved in an instant.

Perhaps the most dubious of all activity is human good, independent of faith through Christ, because such good when seen from a divine perspective of perfect righteousness will be judged as good for nothingness, because it was performed while in a state of sin.

I’ll try to come back in a little with some explicit Scriptural references to accompany this.

BTW, Happy Resurrection Day (Happy Easter). He is alive today in heaven.


441 posted on 04/08/2007 5:12:58 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
I'm not sure we are disagreeing except perhaps on an appropriate definition of Hades.

Just so I understand clearly, what is the present state of those who have died physically.

443 posted on 04/08/2007 6:01:58 AM PDT by topcat54
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