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To: Cvengr
It is for every man to die, active case with emphasis on having life, then being subjected to a state of existence involving separation.

Would you say that spiritual birth must come before spiritual death? Is Adam a special case?

429 posted on 04/07/2007 8:55:00 PM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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To: Seven_0

In the case of man, in God’s brilliant plan, we were condemned before we were saved.


432 posted on 04/07/2007 8:59:45 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Seven_0

In the case of Adam,...”in your dying, you will surely die.”

After the fall, Adam hid from God, displaying a mental activity and heart, so he still had a living soul. He later was sent out of the Garden to provide for himself and Eve and work. This indicates he still had a living body.

I understand the passage to tell us he died in the spirit and remained alive in the soul and body. So in his dying (spiritual) he would surely die (separation of body and soul).

IMHO, there are number of older studies reflecting on these doctrines associated with the old sin nature and the effect of the sin on the body.


435 posted on 04/07/2007 9:05:10 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Seven_0

In all fairness, I am also aware that some denominational differences seem to hinge on some interpreations of some doctrines, which effect other doctrinal beliefs. For example, I understand the Greek Orthodox to not believe children are born with an old sin nature, but acquire it upon sinning.

This then effects their position on the premature death of children, and idiots and their soteriology. A more Protestant perspective approaches the issue from the perspective of volition. Where idiots and children are not yet matured to exercise an accountable volition, God is still free to give eternal life without contravening His immutable nature of perfect righteousness and perfect justice. The Orthodox perspective (as I limitedly understand it) is a child not yet with sin, bears no unrighteousness to prevent God in His grace to bestow eternal life upon the child.

Likewise, the approach with the doctrine facing the rest of mankind may vary with denominational perspective.

IMHO, the real task is to remain in fellowship with God through faith in Christ, so the ministry of God the Holy SPirit is free to teach each believer in faith His actual will, plan and guide us in our sanctification, since all faith, including true doctrine in our thinking comes from the ministry of God the Holy Spirit.


438 posted on 04/07/2007 9:15:26 PM PDT by Cvengr
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