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To: topcat54; Cvengr; 1000 silverlings; TomSmedley; Lee N. Field; Enosh; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; ...
Papias o­n the Millennium:

(Writing around 100 to 125 A.D., Papias, a disciple who heard John's teaching personally and who was a companion to Polycarp had some interesting and useful comments about the millennium and end times chronology. Now I know this is not Scripture, but it is very interesting to see the position of someone so close to the actual events. I will quote a few relevant passages...)


IV.
[As the elders who saw John the disciple of the Lord remembered that they had heard from him how the Lord taught in regard to those times, and said]: "The days will come in which vines shall grow, having each ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in every o­ne of the shoots ten thousand clusters, and o­n every o­ne of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five-and-twenty metretes of wine. And when any o­ne of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, 'I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me.' In like manner, [He said] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear would have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds of clear, pure, fine flour; and that apples, and seeds, and grass would produce in similar proportions; and that all animals, feeding then o­nly o­n the productions of the earth, would become peaceable and harmonious, and be in perfect subjection to man."

V.
As the presbyters say, then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see Him. But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold; for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the city; and that o­n this account the Lord said, "In my Father's house are many mansions:" for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling-place, even as His word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each o­ne is or shall be worthy. And this is the couch in which they shall recline who feast, being invited to the wedding. The presbyters, the disciples of the apostles, say that this is the gradation and arrangement of those who are saved, and that they advance through steps of this nature; and that, moreover, they ascend through the Spirit to the Son, and through the Son to the Father; and that in due time the Son will yield up His work to the Father, even as it is said by the apostle, "For He must reign till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." For in the times of the kingdom the just man who is o­n the earth shall forget to die.

VI.
The same person, moreover, has set down other things as coming to him from unwritten tradition, amongst these some strange parables and instructions of the Saviour, and some other things of a more fabulous nature. Amongst these he says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established o­n this earth. He moreover hands down, in his own writing, other narratives given by the previously mentioned Aristion of the Lord's sayings, and the traditions of the presbyter John.

IX.
Taking occasion from Papias of Hierapolis, the illustrious, a disciple of the apostle who leaned o­n the bosom of Christ, and Clemens, and Pantaenus the priest of [the Church] of the Alexandrians, and the wise Ammonius, the ancient and first expositors, who agreed with each other, who understood the work of the six days as referring to Christ and the whole Church.



Points to note:
1. The millennium is seen as a real, physical time o­n the earth - not as a metaphor for a spiritual reality.
2. People will be living o­n the earth during the millennium. The curse will be rescinded (to some degree).
3 The millennium occurs after the resurrection and is the physical reign of Jesus Christ o­n the earth.
4. The Church age is metaphorically the "first six days" implying that the millennium is the seventh - i.e. the day of rest.

Ref: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/papias.html

(All normal fees have been waived, and this post has been provided for your enjoyment at no cost. Offer good while supplies last No Church Fathers were harmed during the making of this post)

307 posted on 04/05/2007 11:45:22 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus; Cvengr; 1000 silverlings; TomSmedley; Lee N. Field; Enosh; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
The subject of this thread is the pre-trib rapture.

Does Papias or any of the other early church fathers speak to this issue?

You will get no argument from me that there were many premils in the early church, but it was not the only position among orthodox believers. Justin Martyr admitted as much in his Dialog with Trypho, "However, I did point out that there are many pure and pious Christians who do not share our opinion [on the millennium]." (Chapter 80)

Justin had his own set of problems. For example, in the same chapter he wrote, "If you have ever encountered any so-called Christians who do not admit this doctrine, but dare to blaspheme the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob by asserting that there is no resurrection of the dead, but that their souls are taken up to Heaven at the very moment of their death, do not consider them to be real Christians;"

Justin, as with all orthodox Christians, held to the bodily resurrection of the dead. However, he also seemed to hold to some form of soul sleep for the believer preceding the resurrection of the last day.

Bottom line, be careful reading these guys. They were right on some things and wrong on others. They also spoke as inidividuals and we know how individuals can be prone to error.

309 posted on 04/05/2007 12:06:45 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Thank you so much for the information!


311 posted on 04/05/2007 12:40:53 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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