“I believe all the prophecies up to Matt 24:34 were fulfilled with that generation.”
Mat 24:29-31,
1. “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
2.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
3. and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
4. and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
5. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
6. and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
According to your interpretation: the Lord returned around 70 A.D. (Immediately after the tribulation); They all saw Him “coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”; all the tribes of the earth mourned; the Lord sent his angels with a great sound of a trumpet; and they gathered his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (This interpretation sounds a whole lot like the pre trib rapture theory, but that’s for another time.) This all happened during the generation that Jesus was speaking to at the time. What was the purpose of His coming at that time with such a show of power and glory if there was no change in the circumstances of the elect after, and in fact, it got worse? He said He shortened the days yet the persecution became more intense after the appearance.
“symbolic phrase “coming in/with clouds” and how that does not require a second coming fulfillment.”
Of course it requires fulfillment. Jesus said “they shall see the Son of man coming” and all three writers report that fact. In fact, one says the nations will mourn because of it. That is real, not symbol. Jesus does not say “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove” He said “they shall see the Son of man coming” look up your redemption draws near. Symbol does not give that relief. By the way, all through the three passages Jesus tells the hearers to interpret the times.
From your interpretation we get four comings of the Lord, His birth; 70 A.D.; Rev. 19; and Rev. 20. We get four resurrections, His resurrection; those resurrected with Him; 70 A.D.; and at the judgment seat at the end of the age. We also get the nations mourning without any historical evidence of this.
Excellent points.
How they are missed by the other perspective is utterly mystifying. Blind bias is my only explanation.
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Their contention:“I believe all the prophecies up to Matt 24:34 were fulfilled with that generation.”
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The stark contrast of Biblical truth:
Mat 24:29-31,
1. “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
2.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
3. and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
4. and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
5. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
6. and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
According to your interpretation: the Lord returned around 70 A.D. (Immediately after the tribulation); They all saw Him “coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory”; all the tribes of the earth mourned; the Lord sent his angels with a great sound of a trumpet; and they gathered his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (This interpretation sounds a whole lot like the pre trib rapture theory, but that’s for another time.) This all happened during the generation that Jesus was speaking to at the time. What was the purpose of His coming at that time with such a show of power and glory if there was no change in the circumstances of the elect after, and in fact, it got worse? He said He shortened the days yet the persecution became more intense after the appearance.
“symbolic phrase “coming in/with clouds” and how that does not require a second coming fulfillment.”
Of course it requires fulfillment. Jesus said “they shall see the Son of man coming” and all three writers report that fact. In fact, one says the nations will mourn because of it. That is real, not symbol. Jesus does not say “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove” He said “they shall see the Son of man coming” look up your redemption draws near. Symbol does not give that relief. By the way, all through the three passages Jesus tells the hearers to interpret the times.
Of course it requires fulfillment.
Hello ... is this mike on?
You're really not listening to anything I'm saying.
The meaning of all the prophetic images, including the phrase "coming in/with clouds", are explained elsewhere in the Bible. A proper grammatical-historical interpretive approach realizes that and takes it into account.
Did you read Isaiah 13, 9,10 in context? What is the subject? Have you ever read Daniel 7:13,14? What was Jesus saying in Matt. 26:64 when he told the high priest and the scribes and elders who were assembled in His presence, "hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Perhaps Jesus was not being sufficiently “literal” for your taste.
You, on the other hand, are arguing by insisting that you can arrive at the truth by ignoring the rest of the Bible and merely focusing on what you think the text is saying based upon a dispensationally-derived set of presuppositions.
“But it didn’t literally happen” is not an answer, it’s a mindless mantra from your guru.