Is the Pretribulation Rapture Biblical?

Reformedonline.com ^ | Unknown | Brian M. Schwertley

[Enosh]

As with Ecclesiastes and Revelation, studying the Book of Job is like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick*. But once you're done, you'll find is was worth the time and effort.

I find the overarching theme in all three, indeed, that of the entire Bible to be; Trust in God.

* With gratitude to the Great Douglas Adams.

[Ping-Pong]

Thank you Enosh - I really enjoyed the analogy of your brains being smashed.

This morning I listened to a pastor speak a little on Job. He said the first 37 chapters were given by those that wanted Job to be perfect, and of course no one can be. God, in the 38th chapter asked Job, “why are you listening to those idiots” (of course I’m paraphrasing).

The lesson here is to listen to God and not man. That stands today. It is what you state - Trust in God.

Thank you Enosh......Ping

[Zechariah11]

I don’t know how I got on your ping list but please take me off.

[Cvengr]

And we now know how much pyramidology and astrology have been employed to try to prove the pretrib view!

The above is evidence of the twisted thinking of preterists. Nowhere in Chafer's Systematic Theology nor in Pentecost's "Things to Come" is there any appeal to astrology or 'pyramidology', nor would such an appeal be condoned by any conventional Bible Student adhering to a pretribulational, premillineal interpretation of Scripture, referenced by other denominations as 'dispensationalism'.

[topcat54]

Just copied a list from b-d. Sorry. Won’t bother you again.

[Seven_0]

You know, rather than take a point away I think it gives Moses one, just because he is the lawgiver.

I am not surprised. It is quite possible that the two witnesses are someone living at the time. I would give more weight to "appointed to man once to die."

Seven, I know you think the end times are farther off but I wonder if perhaps they are walking the earth now.

The return of Christ is getting closer every day. You know how just before the harvest, the wheat, because it is heavy, begins to bow down. The tares are much lighter and therefore, stand tall. This not only allows us to distinguish between the wheat and the tares, but also when the harvest is. I see this beginning to happen.

Mal 2:17 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Sin is taking mankind inexorably toward judgment. Note that it is a slow, steady pace. I think it is entirely possible that many of the major players are alive today.

Seven

[Seven_0]

It's God's power, not man's, and He can loan it out to whoever He likes.

That is true and it could be said of everything that we do.

[Ping-Pong]

I am not surprised. It is quite possible that the two witnesses are someone living at the time. I would give more weight to "appointed to man once to die."

It's my belief that Moses was "taken" and didn't die. If he was taken as Elijah was then all who saw that event would assume he was dead as did whoever finished writing Deuteronomy. It just seems like there is more said than was written, especially as he was later on the Mt. of Transfiguration.

The tares are much lighter and therefore, stand tall.

They're sure standing tall now, aren't they? It's a shame to see so many in our own country.

Your friend....Ping

[Seven_0]

Hello Ping

It's my belief that Moses was "taken" and didn't die. If he was taken as Elijah was then all who saw that event would assume he was dead as did whoever finished writing Deuteronomy. It just seems like there is more said than was written, especially as he was later on the Mt. of Transfiguration.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

If Moses, the lawgiver returns, do we need to worry about being under the law again? Of course, if the church is not here at the time, then the people left behind will be judged by the law.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Indeed, it just seems like there is more said than was written

Seven

[Ping-Pong]

Hi Seven,

If Moses, the lawgiver returns, do we need to worry about being under the law again? Of course, if the church is not here at the time, then the people left behind will be judged by the law.

I don't think we are ever not under the law. Although ordinances were "nailed to the cross" the law wasn't. We still follow God's laws and are all judged by them, unless we have repented for those transgressions.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

You see this, I think, as a proof of rapture, in that those still under the law here are those "left behind".

I see it as Rom.3:10-18 being about the Kenites, the spiritually dead. Vs.18 shows that they don't believe in God, don't even believe He exists. In vs. 19 it lets us know they will have to stand before God one day.

My firm belief is that the scriptures tell us that when the 2 witnesses return everyone will be here.

I would love to get your opinion on a couple of scriptures. Gen.1:20, what is the "moving creature"? Mark 8:12, why did He say no sign would be given when He was that sign?

Your friend......Ping

[Seven_0]

My firm belief is that the scriptures tell us that when the 2 witnesses return everyone will be here.

. The word “return” does not appear in Revelation 11. It is possible that the two witnesses are not from the past.

I would love to get your opinion on a couple of scriptures. Gen.1:20, what is the "moving creature"? Mark 8:12, why did He say no sign would be given when He was that sign?

I’ll have to think about the passage from Mark.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Note that in this verse there is a distinction between “created” and “made.” With this in mind, look at the first chapter again. Three times in chapter one, God “created” and the rest of the things were “made”

I believe that the three times correspond to the three progressive parts of man, body soul and spirit. It was on the fifth day that god “created” the second time. The “moving creatures” were different than the stationary plants. Perhaps this is the significance. It is also noteworthy that the first man, Adam, was created, while the second man, Christ, was formed.(Genesis 2:7) In other words, Christ was created in Adam in the physical sense and Adam is created in Christ in the spiritual sense.

You don’t need to go very far in Genesis to see the types begin to develop.

Seven

[Ping-Pong]

The word “return” does not appear in Revelation 11. It is possible that the two witnesses are not from the past.

One word can make such a difference, can't it? Thank you for pointing that one out. It is possible they aren't from the past. I guess us talking about the ancients put me in that frame of mind.

Thank you for your thoughts on "created & made". It is also noteworthy that the first man, Adam, was created, while the second man, Christ, was formed.(Genesis 2:7) In other words, Christ was created in Adam in the physical sense and Adam is created in Christ in the spiritual sense.

I don't interpret the differences in Gen. 1 & 2 about Adam like that.

The reason I wondered about the "moving creature" in Gen.1:20 is that it "hath life". A footnote in my Bible said that in Hebrew "life" there is nephesh, soul. Perhaps all animals have souls (I know I think my dog does) but this one is singled out. There is some special reference there and I don't know what it means.

You don’t need to go very far in Genesis to see the types begin to develop.

No you don't. I'm going to spend some time tomorrow going over the first few chapters and look for the "created" and "made" differences. The only time I had noticed anything similar was in the fact that the 6th day men were "created" while Adam, on the 8th day was "formed". Those word differences mean something.

Your friend.......Ping

[RaptureForums]

Of course the pre-trib rapture is biblical. There’s all kinds of proof for a pre-trib rapture.

http://www.raptureforums.com/Rapture/index.cfm

[topcat54]

“Although the pretribulation rapture theory is very popular today, given arguments that are offered in support of this doctrine we must declare Pretribulationalism to be contrary to the clear teachings of Scripture. Simply put, there is not one shred of evidence that can be found in the Bible to support the pretribulation rapture.”