[Scotswife]

"Do you remember if there was mucus present the day you had sex 7 days prior and was it based on internal mucus observation? If so, CCL's rules say you are fertile, regardless, and in phase 2. I cannot say that for sure, because I haven't seen the charts"

Charts showed I could have up to 4 days cm prior to ovulation.
However...there was "other" mucous occasionally with bartholin cyst sometimes leaking, sometimes bursting.
The midwife didn't think this was "fertile" mucous, but I wonder.

So I wasn't charting cyst mucous, and I suppose it is possible there were times when I thought I was only dealing with they cyst but it could have masked some cm.
Does that make sense?

"And phase one sex should only be attempted during the menstrual period (or before day 6) "

Last pregnancy....sex on day 6, ovulation on day 13.
Hence...the hissy fit.

"I understand your frustration but please do not crush the system if you may have not been properly trained or informed."

I'm not sure if I was or wasn't.
I'm not trying to crush NFP for others, but I think what I'm trying to say is that - is it possible there is not a one size fits all solution for all couples?

"Since, this is impossible and unless you have conclusive evidence that it was the system itself that failed and not your use (say a CCL teacher (or equivalent) review of said charts), then please make less sweeping statements against NFP"

first of all...it's a discussion forum, and I can state whatever opinion I please.
second of all...which statements did I make that you consider "sweeping"?

Third...when someone like me reads statements about how NFP is darn near foolproof, is a wonderful loving bonding experience with the spouse...well I can consider those to be sweeping statements.

"I am not trying to talk you into anything like trying it again. No offense but I wouldn't use the NFP knowledge that you have demonstrated myself. If you do use NFP again, please take a class from CCL beforehand. This can be done on-line. Otherwise, do not use the same NFP system you used previously."

Well, it's pretty simple.
Clearly any sex from day 1 to ovulation is out.

Did you find something wrong with the information about waiting 3 days post ovulation to be safe?
Is there something wrong with the information that temp can be suppressed without ovulation actually occurring?

So, if I were to use NFP again then it's "no, no, no" week after week and then "quick hurry up -now!" one week out of the month if I'm lucky.

I'm sure I have personal growth to undergo, but right now this is not seeming very loving or a bonding experience.

[iranger]

"is it possible there is not a one size fits all solution for all couples?"

I agree, one size cannot fit all because its obvious that each couple has a differing level of fertility and/or virility. That has been our experience too, so the question I have to answer is what to do about it?

[klossg]

So I wasn't charting cyst mucous, and I suppose it is possible there were times when I thought I was only dealing with they cyst but it could have masked some cm. Does that make sense?

Yes. You have a bummer of a deal there. CCL will know exactly how to answer this and help you out so that you can minimize your fertile time. I would contact CCL at http://ccli.org/aboutccl/contactus.php. They will help you and their expertise is unsurpassed. The fertile time may not be as long as you would hope but they will give you the longest possible based on your requirements.

Clearly any sex from day 1 to ovulation is out.

This is not necessarily correct. If avoiding pregnancy, you can have sex on any dry day before mucus begins. Unless you are accomplished at telling seminal residue from CM, you should not have sex on consecutive days during phase one. Also, you should be taking internal mucus observations. External can be one day late in showing the presence of mucus.

So, if I were to use NFP again then it's "no, no, no" week after week and then "quick hurry up -now!" one week out of the month if I'm lucky.

I have faced this "lucky" time with my wife. No one has said that NFP is as "free" as contraception chemicals/hormones/barriers. I have thought many times how much easier it would be if everyone of my wife's cycles was the same or if the system was easier or gave us a two day free zone in the middle of the fertile time, etc ... It is rough at times. Sometimes doing what is right leads to frustration. I fail and get ticked too. Things could always be better.

Phase one can be navigated. CCL has for rules that make it 99%+ effective. Three of them are based on your previous cycles. The last is called Dry Days Only. It trumps all the other rules. If there is mucus present, internally or externally, then you are in phase 2.