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To: klossg

Multiple measures provide more certainty - 1-2% chance of pregnancy with NFP X 2% chance with barrier methods = 0.04% chance of pregnancy - same principle holds true with any set of independent safeguards for anything. Sterilization would provide even more certainty - and I am not sure why when pregnancy itself is a threat to health and life, it may not be surgically prevented - when licit treatments for other conditions, e.g. fibroids, do sterilize. Fibroids are rarely life-threatening.

John Paul says in Love and Responsibility that abstaining during the fertile time is difficult for the woman - her desire is strongest then. He is right. It is even possible that the woman will experience NO desire when she isn't fertile. Using NFP to not conceive means that the woman can not offer her husband the gift of her strongest desire - or sometimes any desire at all. In these circumstances, her pleasure and fulfillment are likely much diminished.

Some couples experience difficulty and resentment when they have to wait two weeks plus. A very devout nurse, of about forty, told me that she and her husband were now doing NFP but they could not have managed when they were younger.

Saint Paul said it is better to marry than to burn. Sometimes we are called to be married and to burn - as when spouses are apart from each other. To do so when they are together - some might call that perverse.

Mrs VS


132 posted on 03/23/2007 9:54:57 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor

"Using NFP to not conceive means that the woman can not offer her husband the gift of her strongest desire - or sometimes any desire at all. In these circumstances, her pleasure and fulfillment are likely much diminished."

absolutely correct. And after time the man can get the impression his wife no longer finds him desireable and she becomes resentful the only period of time sex is enjoyable to her - is no longer available.

"A very devout nurse, of about forty, told me that she and her husband were now doing NFP but they could not have managed when they were younger."

even when we were doing our very best to abide by the NFP rules - there were still many many trips to the confessional with the exact same problem.

"Saint Paul said it is better to marry than to burn. Sometimes we are called to be married and to burn - as when spouses are apart from each other. To do so when they are together - some might call that perverse."

I've often pondered the meaning of that verse.


134 posted on 03/23/2007 12:24:10 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: VeritatisSplendor
Multiple measures provide more certainty





John Paul says in Love and Responsibility that abstaining during the fertile time is difficult for the woman

Great point! This is a difference between NFP and Contraception. And just so we are clear ... the woman isn't the only one it is difficult for. John Paul also indicates it is difficult for the man, and not just during the fertile period. And I can attest to that personally. It takes two to make a good thing right. (Isn't that a song from the late 80s?)

It is even possible that the woman will experience NO desire when she isn't fertile.

My wife can attest to this. This condition makes a husband have to work harder and longer, which isn't a terrible thing. A husband who knows NFP knows this and should do his best to compensate for this. It helps him understand more about his wife and her identity/composition. It is where she is at. And anyway, men like challenges. If the same couple were to use contraception, the woman would have no desire during the infertile time and the husband would not know it and might take it personal that she doesn't want to have sex.

I repeat what you wrote for clarity: It is even possible that the woman will experience NO desire when she isn't fertile.

Your point is directed toward contraception being better for marriage and sex than NFP, yet it also makes a point against hormonal contraceptives in marriage. The pill makes a woman non fertile via hormone manipulation. The irony of it is, as you say "It is even possible that the woman will experience NO desire when she isn't fertile", meaning, when on the pill it is all the time!

Saint Paul said it is better to marry than to burn. ... Sometimes we are called to be married and to burn - as when spouses are apart from each other. To do so when they are together - some might call that perverse.

Some might say it is perverse but not Saint Paul ... in the same letter (1 Cor), same chapter Paul says "I tell you, brothers, the time is running out. From now on, let those having wives act as not having them, those weeping as not weeping, those rejoicing as not rejoicing, those buying as not owning, those using the world as not using it fully. For the world in its present form is passing away." In the context of the letter itself, St. Paul would not call NFP perverse at all. In fact he would probably call it virtuous in comparison to contraception.

Again in the same letter, same chapter, Paul writes again, ... possibly foreshadowing NFP ... "The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband. (As we both indicate and the Church indicates when it talks of the "unitive" aspect of marriage) A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife. Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control."

I love St. Paul. He accomplished so much for so many.
135 posted on 03/23/2007 2:30:00 PM PDT by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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