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To: Alex Murphy
Here we see how historically indefensible is the thesis of those who want to enclose Jesus in the world of the Judaism of his time, making him a Jew just like the others, one who did not intend to make a break with the past or to bring anything substantially new

I think he is missing something very big here. Jesus wasn't a Jew 'like the others' if one says the others were limited to the Herodian installed Pharisaical priesthood. He was, however, in the mold of the Maccabee priests one finds in the Apocrypha & the Essene teachers (of whom it is argued, John the Baptist was one.)

Jesus was a Jew, but he wasn't a part of the political structure of Herodian Jews. He was bringing back the classical sense of bridging the gap of the people & God.

I guess, what I am saying is it wasn't Jesus who went against Jewish tradition, it was the Herodian Pharisaical sects who were in charge.

It is also of an interesting historical context to note that shortly after Jesus, the Jewish religion went through a similar upheaval when the Temple was destroyed and the Rabbinical form of Judaism came to fruition- again, based on a relationship w/ God versus going through the temple.

7 posted on 03/13/2007 12:53:39 PM PDT by mnehring (Virtus Junxit Mors Non Seperabit)
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To: mnehrling
I guess, what I am saying is it wasn't Jesus who went against Jewish tradition, it was the Herodian Pharisaical sects who were in charge.

Correct! When Yeshua railed against the so called rulers of the Jews He was aiming at the Hellenized rulers, after all, Nicodemus is a Greek name. Read the Prodigal son (Luke 15) with this in mind, the older brother is Judaism, the younger Christianity. Ouch!

9 posted on 03/13/2007 1:06:25 PM PDT by Jeremiah Jr (Saturn is in Leo)
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To: mnehrling
"...the Herodian installed Pharisaical priesthood."

You're thinking of the Sadducee's who ran the Temple along Herodian guidelines. The Pharisees descended from the Hasidim, and bore the piousness of the Jewish masses as well as facilitating the ordination of rabbis, of whom Jesus was one. Moreover, phariseeism is most commonly traced to the origins of modern Judaism.

Hyam Maccoby, Revolution In Judaea: Jesus and the Jewish Resistance.

19 posted on 03/13/2007 2:16:11 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: mnehrling
based on a relationship w/ God versus going through the temple.

Yes, and Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb, the spotless sacrifice offered up for the cleansing of our sins.

It's not about religion (man-made) but a personal relationship with God. And because of Jesus, we can go directly to the Father in Jesus' Name. Jesus is our mediator. For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son.
23 posted on 03/13/2007 9:27:18 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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