Cardinal Chat - (Mahony's online chat with adults at this year's RE Congress)

Curt Jester ^ | March 7, 2007 | Jeff Miller

[NYer]

And for those unable to attend, here is Video from the 2007 RE Congress. Not to Closed Cafeteria for the link.

Same nonsense/liturgical violations, different year. Thanks to a reader for taking and posting the video. Even the ligurgical dancers are wearing the same costumes. Glass pitchers and chalices, once more. The wicker baskets seem to have been replaced by solid wood bowls. Well, you can't say Cardinal Mahony isn't consistent in his liturgical violations.

video link

[Deo volente]

Question: Why can only men become priests, and not women?
CardinalMahony: The moderator has better answers than I do to that question!!!


Pathetic.

A Cardinal Archbishop of the Church can not answer a question that addresses a fundamental point of Catholic doctrine, a question put to him by a child no less.

Meanwhile, Rome fiddles while Los Angeles burns.

[rzeznikj at stout]

For some reason, I'm not surprised one bit.

btw--is Mahony one of those dudes given to us by Jadot?

[Jaded]

Ellie Hildalgo is a woman?

A couple of months ago, I went to a FTCM class taught by a former Fundamentalist-turned-Anglican Priest convert. He said that someone made a comment about women being priests and he said "well.. I'd like to be a mother, too". Left the other person speechless. LOL.

He's trying to become a Deacon.

[Jaded]

I detest applauding during Mass. And liturgical dancers.

[Maeve]

Mahony is evil on a stick.

[marshmallow]

CardinalMahony: James: of our 5 million Catholics, only a handful are interested in the Latin Mass. I must focus upon the 99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration.

1) Far more than "a handful" are interested in the Latin Mass. And so what if it is only a handful? Precisely nobody was interested in the Novus Ordo before it was manufactured but that didn't stop its introduction.

2) Ignoring the 1% is not pastoral nor scriptural. Jesus talks about leaving the 99 sheep and going in search of the one that is lost. Providing for the liturgical needs of the flock should follow a similar line of reasoning. Even if 99% want the Novus Ordo (big "if"), the other sheep also need to be provided for.

3) The Novus Ordo CAN be "vibrant", when celebrated reverently, but often it is a circus of improvised theatrics. Furthermore, the unbloody sacrifice does not require "vibrancy" for its efficaciousness. It is the offering of Jesus to the Father. That's plenty "vibrant", thank you very much.

4) "Including" people in the celebration should not be at the expense of reverence and liturgical good sense. Yes, we get to say the responses in the Novus Ordo but true "inclusion" in the celebration comes from prayer and a union with what is occurring on the altar.

[Campion]

Ignoring the 1% is not pastoral nor scriptural.

You're using the wrong buzzwords. It's "insensitive to the experiences and needs of an oppressed minority" and "failing to be inclusive of our more traditional brothers and sisters".

[Hoosier Catholic Momma]

Mahony is evil on a stick.

I think that sums up this article pretty well :)

[Nihil Obstat]

yes, Mahony is one of Jadot's.

[marshmallow]

Yes.....yes...of course.......*slaps forehead*....... :-)

[NYer]

btw--is Mahony one of those dudes given to us by Jadot?

Absolutely!

FWIW - over the past few years, I have occasionally posted a link to the article that identifies the bishops appointed under the tenure of Archbishop Jean Jadot. Recently, that article was zapped from the Internet. Coincidence? But, since that link is now lost, I felt the following would provide the necessary amplitude.

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From

Honoring Archbishop Jean Jadot

In November 2005, ARCC gave its first Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award to Hans Küng himself. This November, at the Foundry Methodist Church in Washington, D.C., ARCC gave the Award to Archbishop Jean Jadot, who was the Apostolic Delegate to the U.S. 1973-1980. For the occasion Hans Küng wrote: "As you know there is a whole generation of 'Jadot-bishops' in the States who belong to the best. I wish that the Catholic Church in the United States may again receive apostolic delegates and bishops of the quality of Jean Jadot."

Although Archbishop Jadot was not able to come to Washington, D.C. for the Award, his nephew Louis de Strycker attended in his stead, and the "No-Longer-Catholic-Theologian" Charles E. Curran gave the stirring keynote address entitled "Pilgrim People in a Pilgrim Church: Is there Hope for the Catholic Church?" Curran concluded by saying:

One source of hope for all of us struggling for reform in the church is the example of people like Hans Küng and Archbishop Jadot who have continued to work for reform in the church despite their own personal hurts and suffering.

 

Text of the 2006 Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award ARCC Presented to Archbishop Jean Jadot
on November 16, 2006

Archbishop Jadot, in May 1973 you accepted Pope Paul VI's appointment as Apostolic Delegate to the United States of America. When you met with Pope Paul in July of that year, he informed you that you had been selected to "the most important of our posts" because you were not under the influence of the curia and would not have to follow in the footsteps of your predecessors. Pope Paul VI was very much aware of the fact that previous apostolic delegates had been pawns in the hands of powerful king-maker American cardinals. Nor did Paul VI like the fact that most American bishops were, in his opinion, more big businessmen than they were pastors. He said it was time for a change.

In the seven years that you were Apostolic Delegate (1973 - 1980), you were responsible for the appointments of 103 new bishops and the assignments of 13 archbishops. The bishops appointed, upon your recommendation, were quickly known as (and denounced by conservative American Catholics as) the "Jadot boys."

Key turning points in your USA ministry were your personal involvement in the 1976 Call to Action in Detroit and your address on 9 November 1976, to the General Meeting of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, titled "A Watchman for the House of Israel." In your candid assessment of the state of the Catholic Church in the United States you stressed and asked the American hierarchy to be alert to four specific areas of concern: the immanent shortage of priests; the need for "new forms of parochial life and perhaps new forms of parochial organization so that the parish can become a community of small communities"; the role of women in church and society; and the problems of minorities in the American church, saying then: "How are we to give pastoral care to those who do not feel at home with our white, Western-European ways of public worship and community living…?" Your words in 1976 were prophetic in every way.

An enthusiastic and positive editorial about you ("Jadot Urbi et Orbi" – 25 March 1977) in the National Catholic Reporter was the straw that broke the conservative-American-Catholic camel's back. From that time on, you received a steady flow of anonymous hate mail (originating from Missouri) telling you to "get out of the United States and go back to Belgium." Two US cardinals denounced you at the Vatican. At one point, you offered your resignation to Paul VI who responded immediately by saying "No. You are doing just what I want you to do." Sentiments at the Vatican would change significantly with the election of Pope Paul's second successor, who accused you of "destroying the Catholic Church in the United States."

We honor you today for your courageous faith and clear vision. We honor you because you have been a role model for all who work for a vital and contemporary church. For these, and a myriad of other, reasons, the Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church bestows on you the 2006 "Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award."

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And what is this organization?

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ARCC Mission and Goal

To bring about substantive structural change in the Catholic Church, ARCC seeks to institutionalize a collegial understanding of Church in which decision-making is shared and accountability is realized among Catholics of every kind and condition. It affirms that there are fundamental rights which are rooted in the humanity and baptism of all Catholics. To this end ARCC developed and works to implement a Charter of the Rights of Catholics in the Church and a  Proposed Catholic Constitution.

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To fully appreciate the seriousness of this award, here are some photos from the event.

Audience

Presenters

Did the price of admissin include punch?

[rzeznikj at stout]

Unnngh.

Mahoney, Weakland--they're all a bad bunch.

"Sentiments at the Vatican would change significantly with the election of Pope Paul's second successor, who accused you of "destroying the Catholic Church in the United States."

Sounds like that guy had it right--and if I'm reading it correctly, it was none other than the late, great Pope John Paul II.

[marshmallow]

They're all ......*cough*.......getting on a bit, aren't they?

Looks like mostly 60 and 70-somethings. Subtract 40 years from those numbers and that places them as young adults in the '60s. Which means, I think, that they're mainly liberal '60s peacenik flower children caught in a time warp.

[Cheverus]

Well, judging by the pictures it is a youthful and vibrant movement...........

[Deo volente]

Correction to my post: This particular chat was with adults. I mistakenly thought it was the children's chat.

It was still a pathetic answer from the cardinal, though.

[siunevada]

That has become our Tradition for a long time.

Somebody needs to crack open their Catechism and learn what the Church says Tradition is.

After that, perhaps an encyclical or two to learn the Scriptural and historical foundations of ordination.

Well, I suppose when one is busy, some things just drop by the wayside.

[Jaded]

I reread these and read the links. He needs to be removed, retired, exiled.... whatever. He's an embarrassment and an apostate.

[mcg2000]

Question: Why can only men become priests, and not women?

CardinalMahony: The moderator has better answers than I do to that question!!!

Words escape me ...