Cardinal Chat - (Mahony's online chat with adults at this year's RE Congress)

James: I've read that Pope Benedict is concerned about the liturgy and is about to issue a decree that encourages a more generous use of Latin in the liturgy including the use of the Tridentine rite. Do you support this and will you encourage the use of more traditional forms of worship in the archdiocese if he issues the decree?

CardinalMahony: James: of our 5 million Catholics, only a handful are interested in the Latin Mass. I must focus upon the 99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration.

So I guess he will soon cut his Ministry with Lesbian and Gay Catholic since they comprise such a small part of the population. Though there is some good news on this front. It looks like the rainbow fish logo that they had been using on the Archdiocese page is now gone. Amazing what happens when a little national scrutiny occurs.

I guess also some people will be sad to find out that Masses currently offered in Lithuanian, Samoan, Slavonic, Tongan, Ukranian, Armenian, Croation, Haitian, Igbo, and a array of other languages will no longer be offered. These cultural groups don't fit into the "99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration." Oh wait these groups will continue to have Masses in their Language. You are in luck as long as you want a Mass in any language but Latin.

Notice also the seeming dodge of the Cardinal. No answer about whether he supports the Motu Proprio for the Tridentine Indult. Though considering the call for a "generous application" as specified in Ecclesia Dei he makes Scrooge seem like a spendthrift by comparison.

Moderator: From Fran at Congress: I've been asked this and I don't know -- Can Catholics' burial ashes be scattered?

CardinalMahony: Fran: normally, we encourage that all of the ashes be in one place for the sake of the family and future generations, but if someone wants to spread their ashes over the sea or forest, well, they do return to their origins. Just don't spread them over Disneyland.

"The practice of scattering cremated remains on the sea, from the air, or on the ground, or keeping cremated remains in the home of a relative or friend of the deceased are not the reverent disposition that the Church requires" (Order of Christian Funerals 416).

Arleen: My daughter asks, why do we need to go to church on Sunday? I attend faithfully, but my daughter is of this younger generation that doesn't see the importance of going to church. She says it's boring and all they do is ask for money. How can we make church and the mass more appealing to this younger generation? I try to set an example, but feel like I can't persuade them. What can I do

CardinalMahony: Mass should involve the full, active, conscious participation of everyone. If we are involved, we love meeting God in this form. There are great Masses for teens, such as parishes with Life Teen. Find her a group of active Catholic teens who love Mass, and she will too.

What that can't be. Cardinal Mahony says they already have a "vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration." Maybe the guy's daughter just happened to find the one non-vibrant Mass in L.A.

Leonel Martinez: Cardinal Mahony, thank you for providing this forum for discussion. Some have suggested that the American bishops have not followed the wishes of Pope Benedict XVI because they have opted not to uniformly deny communion to Catholic elected officials who support abortion rights. How would you answer them?

CardinalMahony: That is not what our Holy Father is asking. Rather, he is asking that everyone who approaches Holy Communion should make sure he/she is living a life worthy of Jesus in this Sacrament. The burden is on the recipient, not on the minister.

It is really hard to be charitable with that answer other than that he has actually never read what then-Cardinal Ratzinger said on the subject. In a letter by Cardinal Ratzinger given to Cardinal McCarrick that was suppose to be presented to the Bishop's conference (but wasn't and was unknown until later leaked) called Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion he said:

Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.

Funny it seems to me that the burden is on both the recipient and the pastor. The pastor must meet with him and warn him and if ignored be "denied the Eucharist." This is of course totally in accordance with Matthew 18:15-17 and of course Canon 915

Though one charitable explanation for this total lapse in understanding what was written would be that Cardinal Mahony had one of the former translators who use to work for ICEL translate the Cardinals letter from plain English to whatever dynamic language ICEL calls their translations. For example ICEL would translate the final passage to:

... and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist by himself.

The parts of the chat transcript I selected was cherry-picked and mostly the answers he gave were not problematic. Be sure to check out Gerald's comments.

Moderator: From Denny: Why can only men become priests, and not women?

CardinalMahony: The moderator has better answers than I do to that question!!!

CardinalMahony: Denny: we are following the tradition of the early Church and Jesus' actions. That has become our Tradition for a long time.

Gerald notices that the moderator Ellie Hidalgo wrote an article for Busted Halo where she criticized the Vatican for the excommunication of women trying to be ordained and compared Sister Chittister with Moses.

CardinalMahony: James: of our 5 million Catholics, only a handful are interested in the Latin Mass. I must focus upon the 99% who need a vibrant Mass that includes them in its celebration.

1) Far more than "a handful" are interested in the Latin Mass. And so what if it is only a handful? Precisely nobody was interested in the Novus Ordo before it was manufactured but that didn't stop its introduction.

2) Ignoring the 1% is not pastoral nor scriptural. Jesus talks about leaving the 99 sheep and going in search of the one that is lost. Providing for the liturgical needs of the flock should follow a similar line of reasoning. Even if 99% want the Novus Ordo (big "if"), the other sheep also need to be provided for.

3) The Novus Ordo CAN be "vibrant", when celebrated reverently, but often it is a circus of improvised theatrics. Furthermore, the unbloody sacrifice does not require "vibrancy" for its efficaciousness. It is the offering of Jesus to the Father. That's plenty "vibrant", thank you very much.

4) "Including" people in the celebration should not be at the expense of reverence and liturgical good sense. Yes, we get to say the responses in the Novus Ordo but true "inclusion" in the celebration comes from prayer and a union with what is occurring on the altar.

btw--is Mahony one of those dudes given to us by Jadot?

Absolutely!

FWIW - over the past few years, I have occasionally posted a link to the article that identifies the bishops appointed under the tenure of Archbishop Jean Jadot. Recently, that article was zapped from the Internet. Coincidence? But, since that link is now lost, I felt the following would provide the necessary amplitude.

From

Honoring Archbishop Jean Jadot

In November 2005, ARCC gave its first Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award to Hans Küng himself. This November, at the Foundry Methodist Church in Washington, D.C., ARCC gave the Award to Archbishop Jean Jadot, who was the Apostolic Delegate to the U.S. 1973-1980. For the occasion Hans Küng wrote: "As you know there is a whole generation of 'Jadot-bishops' in the States who belong to the best. I wish that the Catholic Church in the United States may again receive apostolic delegates and bishops of the quality of Jean Jadot."

Although Archbishop Jadot was not able to come to Washington, D.C. for the Award, his nephew Louis de Strycker attended in his stead, and the "No-Longer-Catholic-Theologian" Charles E. Curran gave the stirring keynote address entitled "Pilgrim People in a Pilgrim Church: Is there Hope for the Catholic Church?" Curran concluded by saying:

One source of hope for all of us struggling for reform in the church is the example of people like Hans Küng and Archbishop Jadot who have continued to work for reform in the church despite their own personal hurts and suffering.

Text of the 2006 Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award ARCC Presented to Archbishop Jean Jadot
on November 16, 2006

Archbishop Jadot, in May 1973 you accepted Pope Paul VI's appointment as Apostolic Delegate to the United States of America. When you met with Pope Paul in July of that year, he informed you that you had been selected to "the most important of our posts" because you were not under the influence of the curia and would not have to follow in the footsteps of your predecessors. Pope Paul VI was very much aware of the fact that previous apostolic delegates had been pawns in the hands of powerful king-maker American cardinals. Nor did Paul VI like the fact that most American bishops were, in his opinion, more big businessmen than they were pastors. He said it was time for a change.

In the seven years that you were Apostolic Delegate (1973 - 1980), you were responsible for the appointments of 103 new bishops and the assignments of 13 archbishops. The bishops appointed, upon your recommendation, were quickly known as (and denounced by conservative American Catholics as) the "Jadot boys."

Key turning points in your USA ministry were your personal involvement in the 1976 Call to Action in Detroit and your address on 9 November 1976, to the General Meeting of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops in Washington, DC, titled "A Watchman for the House of Israel." In your candid assessment of the state of the Catholic Church in the United States you stressed and asked the American hierarchy to be alert to four specific areas of concern: the immanent shortage of priests; the need for "new forms of parochial life and perhaps new forms of parochial organization so that the parish can become a community of small communities"; the role of women in church and society; and the problems of minorities in the American church, saying then: "How are we to give pastoral care to those who do not feel at home with our white, Western-European ways of public worship and community living…?" Your words in 1976 were prophetic in every way.

An enthusiastic and positive editorial about you ("Jadot Urbi et Orbi" – 25 March 1977) in the National Catholic Reporter was the straw that broke the conservative-American-Catholic camel's back. From that time on, you received a steady flow of anonymous hate mail (originating from Missouri) telling you to "get out of the United States and go back to Belgium." Two US cardinals denounced you at the Vatican. At one point, you offered your resignation to Paul VI who responded immediately by saying "No. You are doing just what I want you to do." Sentiments at the Vatican would change significantly with the election of Pope Paul's second successor, who accused you of "destroying the Catholic Church in the United States."

We honor you today for your courageous faith and clear vision. We honor you because you have been a role model for all who work for a vital and contemporary church. For these, and a myriad of other, reasons, the Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church bestows on you the 2006 "Hans Küng Rights of Catholics in the Church Award."

And what is this organization?

ARCC Mission and Goal

To bring about substantive structural change in the Catholic Church, ARCC seeks to institutionalize a collegial understanding of Church in which decision-making is shared and accountability is realized among Catholics of every kind and condition. It affirms that there are fundamental rights which are rooted in the humanity and baptism of all Catholics. To this end ARCC developed and works to implement a Charter of the Rights of Catholics in the Church and a Proposed Catholic Constitution.

To fully appreciate the seriousness of this award, here are some photos from the event.

Audience

Presenters

Did the price of admissin include punch?

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.