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To: Forest Keeper; annalex; Kolokotronis; kawaii
We need no help at all to sin, so that is "closer" to the normal human idea of free will choice

To repent is a choice. There is no such thing as "natural" human behavior. Everything men does is learned.

As I understand your belief, Jesus went and snatched him out of Hades, thus proving that Adam did repent at some point

I don't see why He would have done that. I don't believe it. That's for sure.

Once the sin was committed though, the deed was done and could not have been undone

The Christian teaching is that by repentance the sins are forgiven, committed to oblivion, which is as good as if they never happened (great is God's mercy).

God is behind God's plan, not Adam's pride

But if God is sovereign and doesn't allow free will then Adam's pride is not his pride but part of God's will and plan. Then why would Adam be punished? For obedience?

1,120 posted on 04/30/2007 8:37:27 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; annalex; Kolokotronis; kawaii
To repent is a choice. There is no such thing as "natural" human behavior. Everything men does is learned.

Are you saying that what we call "human nature" is learned? That makes no sense. You said yourself that Christ had two natures. Did He only have one until He learned the human one? I really disagree with that.

FK: "As I understand your belief, Jesus went and snatched him out of Hades, thus proving that Adam did repent at some point."

I don't see why He would have done that. I don't believe it. That's for sure.

Well, then what are those icons from the Luther thread all about? I remember them, and they showed Jesus "freeing" Adam from, I think, Hades. Am I way off course here?

FK: "Once the sin [of Adam] was committed though, the deed was done and could not have been undone."

The Christian teaching is that by repentance the sins are forgiven, committed to oblivion, which is as good as if they never happened (great is God's mercy).

No, no, no. :) We're talking about Adam's sin. He could repent and be saved himself, just like the rest of us. However, once he committed that sin, its effects could not be undone. We call that original sin, and I know you understand the principle as another idea. Once Adam sinned, history was changed forever, regardless of whether he later repented or not.

FK: "God is behind God's plan, not Adam's pride."

But if God is sovereign and doesn't allow free will then Adam's pride is not his pride but part of God's will and plan. Then why would Adam be punished? For obedience?

To me, this is the same as saying that satan is God's fault BECAUSE He gave him free will, knowing what would happen. Neither is true. All creatures will be held accountable for their sins.

1,123 posted on 05/09/2007 3:59:40 AM PDT by Forest Keeper
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