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To: stfassisi

"Do you really think that Jesus cares if we use capitol letters or not?

As long as what we write is grounded in LOVE and TRUTH is what really matters."

Oh, I'm quite sure it makes absolutely no difference to Christ, save perhaps to the extent that encouraging the fiction that the One Church of, say, the year 100 is the very same Church the reformers rebelled against in the 16th century or that +Ignatius as bishop of Antioch was the franchisee of a wholly owned Roman franchise keeps many people from reading The Fathers or coming to even a limited understanding of the first 1000 years of Church history.

The Church of the year 100 was not the Roman Catholic Church we see today, nor was The Church a creation of Constantine (neither was the Roman Catholic Church for that matter). It is a source of amazement to me, as an Orthodox Christian, that so many Protestants have such a visceral distaste and contempt for the Roman Church. To them, "Catholic" means "Roman Catholic", in their mythology a creation of the Emperor Constantine. They see that word and they either run away or attack. So I wonder, SFA, why do you Latins persist in creating an impression which only drives the heterodox away? Call statements "Catholic" or "Roman Catholic" all you want after the Reformation, but before the Great Schism it wasn't the "Roman Catholic Church", though there was the Church of Rome, and there wasn't a "Catholic Church", it was the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church", or simply, the "catholic church", as the Fathers called it.


20 posted on 03/04/2007 4:17:12 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

Somewhere between Ignatius and the Great Schism though, it was sort of developing into the universal church, eastern flavor, and the universal church, Western flavor. The fall of the Roman Empire in the West intensified the differences. And of course, it got caught up in politics.


21 posted on 03/04/2007 4:26:35 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Kolokotronis

You said
"The Church of the year 100 was not the Roman Catholic Church we see today."


The church still is the catholic or Catholic Church of the year 100.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm
Excerpt;
The Creed which we recite on Sundays and holy days speaks of one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. As everybody knows, however, the Church referred to in this Creed is more commonly called just the Catholic Church. It is not, by the way, properly called the Roman Catholic Church, but simply the Catholic Church.

The term Roman Catholic is not used by the Church herself; it is a relatively modern term, and one, moreover, that is confined largely to the English language. The English-speaking bishops at the First Vatican Council in 1870, in fact, conducted a vigorous and successful campaign to insure that the term Roman Catholic was nowhere included in any of the Council's official documents about the Church herself, and the term was not included.

Similarly, nowhere in the 16 documents of the Second Vatican Council will you find the term Roman Catholic. Pope Paul VI signed all the documents of the Second Vatican Council as "I, Paul. Bishop of the Catholic Church." Simply that -- Catholic Church. There are references to the Roman curia, the Roman missal, the Roman rite, etc., but when the adjective Roman is applied to the Church herself, it refers to the Diocese of Rome!

Cardinals, for example, are called cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, but that designation means that when they are named to be cardinals they have thereby become honorary clergy of the Holy Father's home diocese, the Diocese of Rome. Each cardinal is given a titular church in Rome, and when the cardinals participate in the election of a new pope. they are participating in a process that in ancient times was carried out by the clergy of the Diocese of Rome.

Although the Diocese of Rome is central to the Catholic Church, this does not mean that the Roman rite, or, as is sometimes said, the Latin rite, is co-terminus with the Church as a whole; that would mean neglecting the Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite or other Oriental rites which are all very much part of the Catholic Church today, as in the past.

In our day, much greater emphasis has been given to these "non-Roman" rites of the Catholic Church. The Second Vatican Council devoted a special document, Orientalium Ecclesiarum (Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches), to the Eastern rites which belong to the Catholic Church, and the new Catechism of the Catholic Church similarly gives considerable attention to the distinctive traditions and spirituality of these Eastern rites.


22 posted on 03/04/2007 4:29:39 PM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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