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To: nanetteclaret; Uncle Chip; wagglebee; Mad Dawg; markomalley; Salvation
"Go ye therefore, and teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway even unto the end of the world." Amen. Matthew 28:19-20 KJV

Not quite....the Greek word translated Nations in this verse has a preferred meaning....Tribes. Gentile nations is a secondary meaning.

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

The word is ETHNOS and it is the sixth word in the above Greek sentence. The "Strong's # is 1484 and can be viewed here.

As you are surely aware, Our Lord in his instructions of Matthew 10:5 also include additional instructions in verse six. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. If you have been following along you will note that both Uncle Chip and I have given everyone proof that there were literally millions of Israelites still living in Babylon during the first century. These were the remnants of the two captivities mentioned in the books of Kings and Chronicles. And, of course we know that the previous verse had already admonished "The Twelve" to stay out of Gentile territory......and going to the "Tribes of Israel" would have certainly been part of their instructions.

Other Apostles had been given instructions to evangelize the Gentiles....but "These Twelve"....now "Eleven" were told not to. That is why we say Peter was never in Rome....he was one of the eleven.

1,467 posted on 03/08/2007 4:54:53 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618; nanetteclaret; Uncle Chip; Mad Dawg; markomalley; Salvation

According to Wikipedia:

"In the Hadrianic war 580,000 Jews were slain, according to Dion Cassius (lxix. 14). According to Theodor Mommsen, in the first century C.E. there were no less than 1,000,000 Jews in Egypt, in a total of 8,000,000 inhabitants; of these 200,000 lived in Alexandria, whose total population was 500,000. Adolf Harnack (Ausbreitung des Christentums, Leipzig, 1902) reckons that there were 1,000,000 Jews in Syria at the time of Nero, and 700,000 in Palestine, and he allows for an additional 1,500,000 in other places, thus estimating that there were in the first century 4,200,000 Jews in the world. Jacobs remarks that this estimate is probably excessive."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons#Ancient_and_medieval_times

Notice there is NO MENTION of any large population of Jews in Babylon and certainly not the "literally millions" you speak of. Church fathers have always held that Babylon was code for Rome and there is no account in Acts or Paul's letters of anyone going to Babylon, in fact the only references are Peter's and John's in Revelation. Now, Revelation speaks EXTENSIVELY of Babylon and it aludes to their power, yet we KNOW THERE WAS NO POWERFUL BABYLONIAN EMPIRE IN THE FIRST CENTURY. Therefore, we must conclude that Babylon means Rome.


1,470 posted on 03/08/2007 5:14:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Diego1618
As you are surely aware, Our Lord in his instructions of Matthew 10:5 also include additional instructions in verse six. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. If you have been following along you will note that both Uncle Chip and I have given everyone proof that there were literally millions of Israelites still living in Babylon during the first century. These were the remnants of the two captivities mentioned in the books of Kings and Chronicles. And, of course we know that the previous verse had already admonished "The Twelve" to stay out of Gentile territory......and going to the "Tribes of Israel" would have certainly been part of their instructions.

I don't think that you have given everyone proof. You have given everyone an indication, a good indication, but not a proof.

Just as you did last time, you cobble together indications and probabilities and then put the result forward as a certainty. It's dicey to ague from "maybe" and "probably" to "certainly".

It's an interesting case. I think you are overstating it. And as I said the last time, you have not persuaded me that the instruction to go to the lost sheep of Israel reaches beyond the resurrection.

1,473 posted on 03/08/2007 5:17:00 PM PST by Mad Dawg ("Now we are all Massoud.")
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To: Diego1618
Not quite....the Greek word translated Nations in this verse has a preferred meaning....Tribes. Gentile nations is a secondary meaning.

According to Thayer, the following six definitions apply to ethnos:

  1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
  2. a company, troop, swarm
  3. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus the human family
  4. a tribe, nation, people group
  5. in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
  6. Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

I think that your understanding of ethnos here is quite flawed or limited to a faulty paradigm.

Have you ever considered the significance of the tearing of the temple veil at the very moment of Christ's death?

And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split (Matt 27:51)

I believe you'd find that things rather changed at that moment...

1,505 posted on 03/08/2007 6:43:33 PM PST by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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