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To: Salvation; Frank Sheed; All
The Novus Ordo vs. the Old Mass

I don't believe it is one vs another so much as the abuse by those who believe it is okay to 'experiment' with the liturgy. When we go to Church to worship God, we do so with an expectation built on previous experiences. Yet how many of us, 40 years after VCII, are still subjected to 'tinkering', by the liturgists. Hence the Mass this week may contain (or be missing) elements that were not there previously. This leads to confusion.

A 'fixed' liturgy, such as the Tridentine, can be afflicted with problems, as well. There are prayes in the Latin Mass that begin but lack the sequential aspect. It was 'these' problems that those attending VCII anticipated would be addressed. To do so, the liturgy frozen in time, would have to be opened for those changes to be implemented.

Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, has recognized the need to call our attention to the purpose of the Mass. He hones in on it with these words:

Pope Benedict has argued that the profound root of the ecclesial crisis of our time is liturgical, that the crisis of the sense of the sacred, the crisis in the sense of God's presence, which has characterized our time, is a liturgical crisis.

I've seen some Novus Ordo Masses that were celebrated with great reverence and some Latin Masses that were hurriedly rushed and mumbled so that one could not understand, much less 'celebrate' the liturgy. Regardless of Novus Ordo or Latin Mass, the most necessary element is to restore the sense of Sacred.

Liturgy is the pivotal moment in our lives when we "meet" with God. Both the celebrant and congregation should approach Him with great reverence, regardless of which liturgy is celebrated. As my pastor often points out, "same faith, different flavor".

13 posted on 02/24/2007 6:28:56 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer
I've seen some Novus Ordo Masses that were celebrated with great reverence and some Latin Masses that were hurriedly rushed and mumbled so that one could not understand, much less 'celebrate' the liturgy. Regardless of Novus Ordo or Latin Mass, the most necessary element is to restore the sense of Sacred.

I submit that the Novus Ordo Mass is afflicted with a "horizontal" aspect or perspective that mimics Protestantism. Yes, it can be reverent and Latin can be used in it more. Sacred music can be added as well. The abuses are there, however, and they are in the person of a "presider" mentality that forces focus on us.

One need only read the text of the Tridentine Mass to see that the people are present at the Sacrifice of the Mass, that there is only one High Priest, Christ, and that the priest is serving only "in persona Christi" to confect the Body and Blood of Christ. He constantly speaks of his unworthiness and the point of adoration is re-emphasized over and over again. Even the "Last Gospel" was meant to leave us with the mystery of an enormous grace of God--the Incarnation. I would submit that I have never heard anyone refer to the Tridentine Mass as a liturgy and precious few refer to the N.O. Mass as a "sacrifice."

I know many abuses were wrought in the name of "The Spirit of Vatican II." I think this Holy Father recognizes the serious flaws in the N.O. Mass and this is why Archbishop Ranjith is being so forthright. He surely must reflect the view of the Holy Father if one has read the liturgical views of the Pope. Even John Paul II allowed for an indult and thought it would be more widely permitted. Now, it seems the quiet-spoken "Panzer-Cardinal" made Pope will have to see it through.

The changes needed for the N.O. include things like architecture which refocuses on the vertical dimension, on the return of the tabernacle to the center of our focus, the curtailment of Sacred wine at every Mass when it was intended as an occasional thing and probably by intinction only. I could go on and on. The changeover will not happen in our lifetimes. I am fascinated, however, by the comment that a 9-year-old child loves the Tridentine Mass which agrees with things I have heard. Children are open to Mystery; at one time, we all were. I feel the N.O. lacks that very essence, sad to say--Mystery! How can we explain what is happening at the Mass? How many can imagine the saints, angels and heavenly chorus present at the moment of consecration? It is there, however. We have become to inured to the focus being on us.

21 posted on 02/24/2007 10:07:24 AM PST by Frank Sheed ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer

I agree with you completely but I doubt that the traditionalists on this forum will be able to grasp such a nuanced argument.


35 posted on 02/24/2007 12:18:17 PM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: NYer

--Regardless of Novus Ordo or Latin Mass, the most necessary element is to restore the sense of Sacred.--

Amen, Nyer!


42 posted on 02/24/2007 12:54:48 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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