Posted on 02/12/2007 6:05:02 PM PST by sionnsar
The Episcopal left is all over the map on Tanzania. Jake says the primates can't touch TEC:
Keep in mind that, regardless of what anyone else tries to tell you, the Primates do not have the authority to make changes within the Episcopal Church. That authority rests with General Convention, which will not meet again until 2009. Any statement from the Primates is advisory. The notion being floated about that they have the authority to reject our elected leader and select one of their own is simply absurd. Our membership would never stand for such high handed tactics.
A lot of us are wishing for that very scenario. Anyway, Jake doesn't think that much will happen. Whatever emerges from the Dar es Salaam meeting might be considered at GenCon 2009. Or it might not.
Consequently, what we do know for sure is that come Monday morning, nothing of any immediate importance will have occurred at this meeting. Most likely there will be various recommendations. We may choose to consider these recommendations at GC2009. And then again, we may not. It seems to me we have dwelt on these issues long enough. Other than rescinding B033, I think it is time that we moved on to other concerns.
Magnanimous of him considering that TEC started all this. Jake realizes that Schori's going to get reamed but thinks TEC should be big about it.
There is little doubt that our elected leader will be treated rudely, and most likely will be subjected to verbal violence. Those who participate in such behavior need to be noted. As far as responding to such unChristian acts of violence, I think it would be wise to follow Bishop Katharine’s lead on this. There is no question that we are called to stand up against oppression, but responding to violence with violence usually results in more violence.
Because "we" need to move on.
This whole mess has already created enough victims. It’s time we brought things to a close. As Josh said in a recent comment, let’s disarm the extremists with the truth, so that reconciliation can commence. Once again, let’s avoid the temptation of making knee-jerk responses. Wait until we have heard from our Presiding Bishop. Let’s let her show us the way forward. Let’s allow her to lead.
There's nothing quite like blowing up the levee and then complaining about how wet it's suddenly gotten. Maddie boy thinks this controversy is about power.
On one side you have those who need to be in charge, who crave power and authority, who use concepts like the inerrancy of scripture to give credence to the idea that some human beings should also have absolute power over other humans. These power seekers are supported by those who crave domination, who need powerful leaders, who cannot survive unless they are told what to do and think. their relationship to each other is like that of a dominatrix and her/his slave. Both parties in this self-serving relationship are petrified of freedom - the slave-owner is scared of losing his power, the slave is scared of just about everything and this is why he/she craves the protection of the big, strong slave-owner.
The good kind of power. Like when leftists run the church, claim that words in the Bible don't really mean what they say and insouciantly toss 2,000 years of church teaching in the garbage just because the secular culture wants them to.
On the other side, as epitomised in the person of Katharine, the American PB, are the leaders who lead only to give their power away to those whom they lead. Such leaders tend to be embarrassed by their authority because they know such authority is a human construct and not of the Kingdom. They realise their position only exists because of the fallen nature of humanity and as such is only provisional. They would give up their authority willingly and at a moment’s notice if there was a better way of protecting the oppressed of the world.
"They would give up their authority willingly and at a moment’s notice" once they got done suing orthodox Christians out of their meeting houses. First things first.
These Kingdom leaders are supported by people who respect them as human beings and for what they do rather than as an office and because that office has been traditionally respected. The relationship between the two parties on this side of the fence is like that of a couple in a healthy marriage. It is a marriage of equals where decisions are made by consensus after proper discussion. Nobody is bound up and tied to a bed.
You're a little heavy on the S&M references there, Tynesider. Got something you want to get off your chest? Mark Harris wonders how the chicken tastes at Dar es Salaam hotels.
Jim raises an interesting question: "I wonder if they are aware that their presence in Tanzania, like their presence in Northern Ireland, convey to the rest of the world that they don’t trust Peter Akinola, Bernard Malango, Gregory Venables et. al. to manage on thier own?" I second that question, and raise it one: does their presence in Tanzania signal what we already suspected, that Archbishops Akinola, Malango and Venalbes, et. al. are being manipulated, i.e., handled?
And then he gets in this blast.
May they all sit in their hotel and talk on their cell phones and manage and manipulate and cajole and dicker. Let it all go. "Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy." (Rev 22:11 RSV)
But I didn't meant to compare Akinola to the devil the other day or anything. Not at all. Trust me on this.
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.
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