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To: dangus
Slow down...you're starting to attribute things to me that I didn't say or didn't say in the context you claim. John 1 is used as a proof text but is an excellent example of a text that seemingly says something to support your beliefs while creating many contradictory verses in the Bible.

The issue is that if you cannot grasp the meaning and messge of clear, unambiguous writing then you are unlikely to graps the meanings of other verses.

Can you honestly hold on to one or two verses that seem to say what you want them to say while ignoring verses that clearly set up contradictory positions?

Obviously God is superior to Jesus. That also makes Jesus inferior to God. There is no disrespct there.

1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

It is also clear that Jesus does not exalt himself against God and sits at God's right hand.

You say I can't use terms not found in the bible, such as "God, the Son." But that IS in the bible! "It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known."

You simply made that up. As you must to support unBiblical teachings.

The very phrase "begotten Son of God" is a denial of monotheism, unless the Son of God is also God himself. (We are sons of God through adoption, not through having been begotten.) That which is begotten is the same nature of that which begets. A dog begets a dog; a human begets a human. That which is begotten of a god is a god, or at least a demigod. But Jesus is begotten of God (even though he was not made). Hence, if God is a god, then Jesus is a god. Yet, if there can be only one god, then God and Jesus share the same divinity.

LOL..what utter nonsense! Very simply, if God is God and Jesus is God then you have two Gods. If you still want to say that those two are really one who is two, don't for get, there is only one God and that God is one, not two, or three.

God is spirit, (John 4:24) and not flesh. If God Almighty can create the heavens and the earth, I don't suppose it is hard at all for him to creat a perfect sperm inside a young believer named Mary in order to have a perfect human baby who doesn't share the sinful nature found in human blood since the fall of Adam. This is also the 'genesis' of Christ. Unless, of course, you really believe that God (who is spirit) somehow actually slept with Mary like some incubus. But I don't think so.

I'd address the rest of your post but it seems like you're off on a tangent.

83 posted on 02/06/2007 9:14:15 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There oughta be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye

>> Slow down...you're starting to attribute things to me that I didn't say or didn't say in the context you claim. John 1 is used as a proof text but is an excellent example of a text that seemingly says something to support your beliefs while creating many contradictory verses in the Bible. <<

Translation: it doesn't fit your interpretation of other verses, so rather than re-evaluating your own interpretation, you're just going to nullify the Word of God.

>> The issue is that if you cannot grasp the meaning and messge of clear, unambiguous writing then you are unlikely to graps the meanings of other verses. <<

Sounds like you're the one having trouble. My understanding is the same as Christians throughout history.

>> Obviously God is superior to Jesus. That also makes Jesus inferior to God. There is no disrespct there <<

Balderdash! Jesus submits to his Father, not because He is inferior, but because He is providing an example to us: "He who is without sin became sin for our sake."

>>>> "It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known." <<<<

>> You simply made that up. As you must to support unBiblical teachings. <<

No, I did not. It is John 1:18b. In Greek: "monogenus theos on eis ton kolpos tou patros ekeinos exilisato." Translated word by word this reads, "onlybegotten god, the one [who] is in the lap of the father who has explained." (Word-Study Greek-English New Testament, Paul McReynolds, ed.) Or, slightly more translated, "It is the only begotten god, who is in the lap of the father, who revealed him."

NLT: "But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart; he has told us about him."

NIV: "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

NASB: "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained {Him.}"

>> LOL..what utter nonsense! Very simply, if God is God and Jesus is God then you have two Gods. <<

See, you refuse to accept the statement, "Jesus is God," not because it isn't biblical -- it is biblical -- but because you cannot accept that two persons can both be the same God. If you refuse to believe that, fine. But that is what the bible says. Does the bible sound like "utter nonsense" to you? Paul said it would.

If you will not accept his Word, Go ahead and reject Christ. He will call you back. Explore the other explanations of this word, atheism, nihilism, or other religions. But you are sitting on the fence, proclaiming yourself a believer, while you will not believe. The bible says, "if you turn and forsake him he will gently call your name." But it is the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit who cannot be forgiven.

[Note on John 1:18b. The KJV reads, "The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]" This translation is based on the Vulgate, in the full verse, "Deum nemo vidit umquam unigenitus Filius qui est in sinu Patris ipse enarravit." Jerome resolved the awkwardness of having two seperate persons referred to as "God," by refering to God the Father as "the Father" and God the Son as "the Son," as done in the Nicene Creed. However, the word "theos," which occurs in the Greek, plainly means "god."]


100 posted on 02/06/2007 11:05:26 AM PST by dangus
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